Heavy terr act in Madrid II

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
I think the ETA is outdated as things are. But there were many national groups in the 60s and 70s, and those had not wholly unjustified causes. Since I don't know much about Basque history, I will not pronounce myself on the ETA.

The anti-Franco ETA was quite different from today's ETA. They did not only fought for freedom of the Basque country, they fought for freedom in general. With the arrival of democracy in Spain, their methods have become useless, and a great many Basques don't want their violence anymore.

Since then, the ETA has degenrated into a mafia-like organization that makes money and gets members thanks to violence. They are pressuring the Basque intellectual elite, and do fearmongering among the Basque population, even those who want to achieve autonomy through political means.

They are scum

[JCG]

Originally posted by Jamski
Is it not already 90% sure that the whole "blame ETA" thing was a cover-up by the Francoesque Spanish Govenment?

-Jam

Yes....

But being honest, one can't really call it a "cover-up" in the full sense of the word, considering that the government and the police began to release information pointing to AQ quite soon after their earlier declarations (in other words, with plenty of time before the elections), and even in those first declarations there are remarks where they say stuff like: "ETA is (was) our main suspect, but we are still going to pursue all the other possibilities in the investigation as it progresses".

So they really didn't close the door on AQ, they just spoke too soon about ETA, admittedly knowing that would be the possibility that'd benefit them the most for the elections....and then they began to realize their mistake and backtracked.

So one could still call it a "cover-up", but a very sloppy and premature one that was gradually aborted.

Btw, about ETA's "modus operandi"...like one Spanish commentator said on tv, one can't really pretend to argue that ETA has always played or will forever play 100% by those so-called "rules" (or actually generalizations), as there have been times when they have not done so. Their "record" did indeed make their responsability quite unlikely, but not impossible.

[GePap]

I will repeat my observation from thread one: the news of this attack was the very first thing I hear when I woke up, which was 7am Eastern ST on the day it happend-it was the first thing cause my alarm is the radio going on unto a news station. The very first thing I heard, after the announcer saying hundreds of people have been killed by simultanous bombings (and at this point, no number was given, I though that meant 2, not 10), the Spanish Government blames ETA for the attacks- and just like I said on the previous thread-it struck me how the government could be saying it was ETA so quickly, when the MO (simultanoues bombings) was something that struck me as Al Qeada.

Now, DD keep positng evidence that woul posit some links to ETA-fine. The question was, why so soon? It took a couple of days after 9/11 for the consensus to become solid behind the notion Osama was behind the attacks. The Spanish government could have said little the firt day as to whom they thought had done it, and all the accusation coming out now would not be able to stick. But I do think the government was too quick to blame ETA-I don;t think it was for calcualted political reasons-I think they wanted it to be ETA and not Al Qaeda, and shot their mouths off too early.

[DinoDoc]

Does anyone know how the polls have the election now?

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes.

[BeBMan]

I haven't seen any numbers yet, but it seems the PP has lost somewhat, but currently it seems unclear if they lost that much that they'll lose the entire elections.

[BeBMan]

Correction: a German news site has both sides currently at ca. 40%

[DinoDoc]

Sounds like a nail biter.

[BeBMan]

Another one says Aznars PP has lost (36%), PSOE wins (43%).

Hm, seems we have to wait a little until it is clear.

[Bereta_Eder]

Seems PP is still ahead on the polls but only slightly.

[Bereta_Eder]

ôçëåïðôéêü äßêôõï Telecinco äßíåé 40,6% óôï Ëáúêü Êüììá êáé 38,3% óôïõò ÓïóéáëéóôÝò, åíþ ç êñáôéêÞ ôçëåüñáóç 41,4% óôïõò ÓïóéáëéóôÝò êáé 36 % óôï Ëáúêü Êüììá êáé ôï Radio SER, 40,5% óôïõò ÓïóéáëéóôÝò êáé 39,5% óôï Ëáúêü Êüììá.

[joncha]

It depends which poll. I'd say "too close to call" is the safe bet for now.

[Bereta_Eder]

telecino: 40,6% to PP 38,3% to socialists
state TV: 41,1 socialists, 36 PP
radio ser 40,5 socialists, 39,5% PP

[joncha]

Originally posted by paiktis22
ôçëåïðôéêü äßêôõï Telecinco äßíåé 40,6% óôï Ëáúêü Êüììá êáé 38,3% óôïõò ÓïóéáëéóôÝò, åíþ ç êñáôéêÞ ôçëåüñáóç 41,4% óôïõò ÓïóéáëéóôÝò êáé 36 % óôï Ëáúêü Êüììá êáé ôï Radio SER, 40,5% óôïõò ÓïóéáëéóôÝò êáé 39,5% óôï Ëáúêü Êüììá.

Dude, that's all Greek to me.

[joncha]

I'm guessing it says something similar to:

State television: Socialists (SPOE): 154-158 seats; Popular Party (PP): 150-154 seats
Cadena Ser radio: SPOE: 151-159; PP: 154-160
Telecino television: SPOE: 141 seats; PP: 169 seats
Total number of seats: 350