Heavy terr act in Madrid

[The diplomat]

It is probably ETA and Al Queda. Al Queda probably supplied the know-how and the logistics, ETA already had the people on the ground.

[Winston]

My condolences to the families and to the people of Spain.

Does it strike anyone else that this happened exactly 2½ years after 9/11? Almost to the minute, if you account for the 5 hour time zone difference.

[Niessuh]

It is ETA. The explosive used was Tytadine, the same stolen from a french arsenal last year and the same captured on previous failed acts





four trains, nine holes like these

[chequita guevara]

In the 1980s, there was an attack like this carried out in the Bologna railway station. Eighty-five died, don't know how many wounded. Right before the elections, caused a landslie victory for the right.

In the 1990s it was uncovered that the bombing was carried out by an extreme right-wing group that was connected to the Italian military for the purpose of derailing the exected leftist victory in the polls.

Operation Gladio has it's fingers in all Western European countries.

[asleepathewheel]

[Niessuh]

[WRW]

Originally posted by The diplomat
It is probably ETA and Al Queda. Al Queda probably supplied the know-how and the logistics, ETA already had the people on the ground.

ETA has his own know-how and logistic for years and much better than Al Queda in Spain.

[Arrian]

Ouch. This is the first I've heard of this.

My condolences to all effected by it, of course.

Like GePap, I too have often wondered why trains aren't hit by terrorists more often. I hope they haven't figured it out and now are starting a new trend in terror attacks.

One thing I urge the Spanish to learn from we Americans: don't assume you know who did it until there is pretty good proof. Look at Oklahoma City. Everybody thought it was Arab terrorists and it was an angry white American.

-Arrian

[Timexwatch]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In the 1980s, there was an attack like this carried out in the Bologna railway station. Eighty-five died, don't know how many wounded. Right before the elections, caused a landslie victory for the right.

In the 1990s it was uncovered that the bombing was carried out by an extreme right-wing group that was connected to the Italian military for the purpose of derailing the exected leftist victory in the polls.

Operation Gladio has it's fingers in all Western European countries.

Che, I'm not aware of the the Bologna bombing, but this was in all likelyhood done by the ETA for the purposes of electing the PP.

The ETA has been on the defesnsive right now, and at least according to discussions with some of the PoliSci profs here and my own understanding, ETA needs a foil/opponent to try to re-energize the group and to allow it to further point to the government in Madrid as the oppressors. There's a hardcore 15-% of Pais Vasco that supports the aims of ETA. There's a reason why the whole territory is exposed to a greater degree of Low Intensity Violence than any other part of Spain, because of the degree of the population's support.

The problem with Basque terrorism is that the ETA specifically and some nationalists conceive of the Basque state not as a cultural one but an ethnic one. Some ETA literature is scary in the resemblence to radical rightist racial/ethnic literature. The terror problem will be pretty intractable for some time to come because it's not just a political problem that can be completely solved with amending the Autonomic Statutes.

To tie this back to the first paragraph, the ETA fears that if the PSOE or a left coalition gets into power, that they would be willing to negotiate with the PNV and delegate more powers to the Basque Country, co-opting some of the ETA's support and lessing the drive for outright independce, softening the hard core of supporters that believe in Basque independence.

I'd hate to say it, but sending the Spanish army into Pais Vasco/Navarre would be counterproductive. The worst thing that could happen would be to elect the PSOE.

Also, it's silly to think that the ETA couldn't coordinate this when they've been bombing targets and shooting politicos since 1969. Yes, it's outside their normal operating pattern, but September 11th was outside Al-Quaeda's normal pattern too. Considering the timing, it's highly likely that the ETA is trying to tip the vote towards the PP.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by GePap
---
Personally, it is surprising to me why trains are not more common targest-they are sitting ducks, they are not given anywhere near the same protection as planes, and attacks on commuters are likely to be a. very bloody and b.get lots of press.

Ten years ago, there was a bomb on a Paris Metro train. I was one week, on the minute, from being a passanger on that train. I don't think the bomb was so big, but there were policemen all over town when I passed through again a few days later.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In the 1980s, there was an attack like this carried out in the Bologna railway station. Eighty-five died, don't know how many wounded. Right before the elections, caused a landslie victory for the right.

In the 1990s it was uncovered that the bombing was carried out by an extreme right-wing group that was connected to the Italian military for the purpose of derailing the exected leftist victory in the polls.

Operation Gladio has it's fingers in all Western European countries.

The bombing was established as the work of a fascist group. The only statements that it was the work of the Italian military were on the usual lefty websites

But lets parse gueveras statement - it was the work of rightwingers - correct. The rightwingers were "connected" to the Italian military - well given the ambiguity of "connected" that could well be true, without meaning very much (of course you could say that Saddam was 'connected" to al qaeeda - hey, wait its no coincidence some neocons were ex-
Trotskyites, ) "for the purpose" does this refer to 'the bombings were carried out by the fascists" for this purpose, or the Italian military had this purpose?? Very different, to me at least.

[JCG]

A true tragedy.

Once again, it can be seen on tv and online that many Basques are condemning such an act. Evidently, it is not very representative of "freedom fighting", for anyone involved....for example:

The president or lehendakari of the Basque Country, Juan José Ibarretxe, condemned the attacks, saying that "when ETA attacks, the Basque heart breaks into a thousand pieces." He invited the Basque population to silent demonstrations in front of Basque city and town halls.

Still, it's too early to assign definite blame, though the signs and circumstances do point to ETA, as has been posted before.

However....

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In the 1990s it was uncovered that the bombing was carried out by an extreme right-wing group that was connected to the Italian military for the purpose of derailing the exected leftist victory in the polls.

Operation Gladio has it's fingers in all Western European countries.

The least that I can say is that such a theory is extremely unlikely (for those of us who aren't fans of one-sided conspiracy theories), but sadly not impossible.

Let's wait and see if such a theory is eventually corroborated by the evidence then...or if the opposite will happen and ETA's blame is confirmed.

However, believing anything more than that is just mere speculation at this point.

[Shi Huangdi]

This is a terrible and horrible human tragedy, the worst terror attack since 9/11. Lets hope whoever did this is swiftly brought to justice, and that the actions of a few extremists will not interfere with reconiciliation between the Basques and the rest of the Spanish.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
The bombing was established as the work of a fascist group. The only statements that it was the work of the Italian military were on the usual lefty websites

But lets parse gueveras statement - it was the work of rightwingers - correct. The rightwingers were "connected" to the Italian military -

It was a major Italian scandal. It wasn't merely "lefty" websites but the Italian media and judiciary that were involved in uncovering this.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


It was a major Italian scandal. It wasn't merely "lefty" websites but the Italian media and judiciary that were involved in uncovering this.

Stop trying to politicize this. The PSOE is not going to win the election.

This was a terrorist attack by ETA, of abhorrent proportions. 187 dead. If anything the PP is going to win in the polls.

I think if we find who did this, we must reconsider bringing back the death penalty.