Does RACE exist?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Race among humans is a social construct. It only exists because we say it exists. People on the bottom tend to be "Black," regardless of their ancestral-origin, skin color, etc. People on the top tend to be "white," not that many of these "whites" would be recognizable as white to most Westerners.

The human race is a continuem. There are no clearly recognized boundries between one group and anthore. We blend into each other. Furthermore, we can all interbreed.

You only believe this because the foundation of your ideology rests on it. There is a mountain of scientific evidence against you yet you continue in your beliefs because they provide a major justification for socialistic government programs.

[Bereta_Eder]

[Caligastia]

To elaborate - the belief that all humans are inherently equal justifies the use of government programs because it is assumed that human differences are purely the result of environment, and therefore the government should step in to make everyone's environment the same. This will make everyone "equal".

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Caligastia
You only believe this because the foundation of your ideology rests on it. There is a mountain of scientific evidence against you yet you continue in your beliefs because they provide a major justification for socialistic government programs.

#1, I would point out that you believe he opposite, and you also believe the socialism would be a good idea . . . when people are ready for it.

#2, your mountain of scientific evidence is more of a molehill. All I need to do is pick up Scientific American or Discover or National Geographic to see a confirmation of my beliefs on race. Unlike some, I base my beliefs on science. Science is pretty set against the idea of biological race in human beings.

On the other hand, there laws of this country (existing and previous), as well as many others are proof of my assertion that race is a social concept. If we have to make laws to define what people are, then race cannot be biological. We don't need to define dogs or horses in the law, but we did need to define Blacks, whites, Mexicans, Indians, Chinese, etc. The fact that American Blacks were legally white in apartheid South Africa is the ultimate proof of race as a social concept.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
#1, I would point out that you believe he opposite, and you also believe the socialism would be a good idea . . . when people are ready for it.

I definitely see capitalism as a means to an end. I have no doubt that if we were to look far into the future that things would appear very socialistic to us. When humans have evolved to much higher moral ideals, socialism will be inevitable. I'm not even sure if that would be strictly socialism, but you know what I mean.

#2, your mountain of scientific evidence is more of a molehill. All I need to do is pick up Scientific American or Discover or National Geographic to see a confirmation of my beliefs on race. Unlike some, I base my beliefs on science. Science is pretty set against the idea of biological race in human beings.

Not at all. Hey, we can argue this till we're blue in the face, but we'd be beating a dead horse. I really think you need to research the other side more thoroughly than you have. The least you could do is admit neither side has presented their case to the satisfaction of the majority of the scientific community.

On the other hand, there laws of this country (existing and previous), as well as many others are proof of my assertion that race is a social concept. If we have to make laws to define what people are, then race cannot be biological. We don't need to define dogs or horses in the law, but we did need to define Blacks, whites, Mexicans, Indians, Chinese, etc. The fact that American Blacks were legally white in apartheid South Africa is the ultimate proof of race as a social concept.

Just because societies make laws based on racial inaccuracies does not mean race has no biological basis. A race can be merely a social construct, yes, but this in no way invalidates the biological fact of it. That's like saying that if the government decided to classify cars and skateboards in the same group it would prove that automobiles are a social construct.

[debeest]

Originally posted by Caligastia

You only believe this because the foundation of your ideology rests on it. There is a mountain of scientific evidence against you yet you continue in your beliefs because they provide a major justification for socialistic government programs.

Sorry, but Che is entirely right on this, and my ideology doesn't rest on his beliefs. Scientists are clear that there is no such thing as race, except as a social construct. Yes, there are characteristics such as skin color, physical build, hair texture, eye shape, and sickle-cell genes that TEND to associate together in such a way that we can tentatively identify people's "race," but there's no scientific basis for it.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by debeest


Sorry, but Che is entirely right on this, and my ideology doesn't rest on his beliefs. Scientists are clear that there is no such thing as race, except as a social construct. Yes, there are characteristics such as skin color, physical build, hair texture, eye shape, and sickle-cell genes that TEND to associate together in such a way that we can tentatively identify people's "race," but there's no scientific basis for it.

It's unscientific to note common traits and create catagories based on them?

I think your definition of race must be very limiting. You seem to be confusing races and species.

[Rogan Josh]

The technical specifications don't matter. The perception of people is that there are different races, and thereby, there are.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Caligastia

Not at all. Hey, we can argue this till we're blue in the face...

Hmm, not familiar with that 'race'- could you elaborate?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

a group of people who move from europe to africa will change skin color after 30,000 years. does this mean that they have changed race?

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
a group of people who move from europe to africa will change skin color after 30,000 years. does this mean that they have changed race?

It would mean that they have adapted to a new environment and thereby have formed a new Race

[Alexander's Horse]

Race does exist. The trouble is racism has so devalued the term that other terms like ethnicity are more useful.

[Caligastia]

Very true.

[Bereta_Eder]

IMO "race" plays no part whatsoever. It's all about culture. Where you were born and raised. For example, you're a hick from some forgotten dumpster in Australia? There are good chances you'll be a lot dumber than an average black kid in London. And vice versa.

[Caligastia]

Behaviour is affected by more than just environment, you know.