Does RACE exist?

[Sloth]

No, definetely race doesn't exist. Humans are different, but are is a multidimensional continuum.
Read this for proof.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0520228731/qid=1078235584/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-2199420-3358358?v=glance&s=books

[Guest]

It is true that there are statistical differences between different populations, using many different criterion.
you could use certain of these criterion for defining race.
For example it is true than the average skin colour in SA is different than in N America than in Africa etc...
This is obvious.
The more interesting point is that, has as been pointed out, it is a continuum sprectrum for almost all these criterion. There are much darker ppl in American than in Africa, there would be no obvious cut-line, and this property has been found for all studied criterion.
That doesn't mean its impossible to define races objectively, it is (i mean here that we can find a definitoin, THAT ONCE AGREE UPON, we can classify ppl) the problem is the choice of definition is somewhat to very subjective.
the most interesting point, is that it has been proved, that for most er.. intuitive definition of races (skin colour etc) the variance between the mean subjects in between races is less than the variance in beetween subjects in a race.
Which means that for example, for a specific trait, it will usually be more different between 2 different Irish (howere you want it defined) than beetween the average Irish and the Average Tuti.
Maybe if you find "L'eloge de la difference" by renowed biologist/ethician in English you could find great arguments.

[SpencerH]

From a statistical standpoint there are differences in the genetic alleles and expression of those alleles when you compare, for example, a large population of negroes with caucasians (and not just the obvious stuff like melanin etc). So its not impossible that if we looked hard enough that we could find genetic loci that were 'racially defining' based on our current definitions. Who would spend the time, money, and effort to do so though? Some crazed billionaire maybe?

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by LulThyme
It is true that there are statistical differences between different populations, using many different criterion.
you could use certain of these criterion for defining race.
For example it is true than the average skin colour in SA is different than in N America than in Africa etc...
This is obvious.
The more interesting point is that, has as been pointed out, it is a continuum sprectrum for almost all these criterion. There are much darker ppl in American than in Africa, there would be no obvious cut-line, and this property has been found for all studied criterion.
That doesn't mean its impossible to define races objectively, it is (i mean here that we can find a definitoin, THAT ONCE AGREE UPON, we can classify ppl) the problem is the choice of definition is somewhat to very subjective.
the most interesting point, is that it has been proved, that for most er.. intuitive definition of races (skin colour etc) the variance between the mean subjects in between races is less than the variance in beetween subjects in a race.
Which means that for example, for a specific trait, it will usually be more different between 2 different Irish (howere you want it defined) than beetween the average Irish and the Average Tuti.
Maybe if you find "L'eloge de la difference" by renowed biologist/ethician in English you could find great arguments.

Yes, it seems to be logical to define Race among statistical Analysis of Difference bettween the Groups, for example via ANOVA and to define 2 Groups of Humans as being of different Races if there are statistically significant Differences (with p <= .05) between the groups (but not within each Group)

You mention some Examinations made according to this Criterion, LulThyme.
Are there any papers which are freely available on the Iternet?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Race certainly exist socially and politically. It is s dubious concept based on genetic diversity, but for social and political purposes, visbile biological characteristics seem to be enough.

[SpencerH]

The funny thing is that (in the USA at least) the currently used definitions are self-defined i.e. to the government you are what you say you are.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by SpencerH
The funny thing is that (in the USA at least) the currently used definitions are self-defined i.e. to the government you are what you say you are.

So if you say you are a Vulcan,
the government would accept this
and would view you as a Vulcan rather than as a White?

[East Street Trader]

The Oxford English Dictionary gives (amongst others) "a group or set, especially of people, having a common feature or features" also "a group of living things connected by common descent or origin" and "a tribe, nation or people descended from a common ancestor".

I suppose social and political elements might be enough but my sense of the word is that it usually connotes some association with a geographical location sufficiently lengthy to embed characteristics into the genes influenced by that location.

Social and political similarities are associated with nationality rather than race.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


So if you say you are a Vulcan,
the government would accept this
and would view you as a Vulcan rather than as a White?

I havent seen that one yet but I'm forced to keep track of 'race' by the government as part of the studies on STD that I conduct. If someone put down 'Vulcan' that's what they'd be.

Hmmm, that wouldnt be race though, since vulcans are a different species.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Where does one delineate the boundaries of race? Race is a relative measure, one can be more white, or brown, or yellow when compared to someone else, yet there can be no one who is the proper white, or brown or black or yellow.

Right. Unfortunately I can't cite the source (I forgot), but according to it, antrologists analyized the skin color all over the world and they came up with over 3,300 different colors.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Racism is a Problem of Education.

AFAIK you wouldn´t see small children making a Distinction between Skin Colour.
It´s only later in Life that conscious or subconscious aversions against other Races develop. Be it because the Parents have such aversions or be it because the children observe other people in their vicinity having those aversions.

So, yes, I also think that, if you change society you could eleminate Racism.

Actually there have been studies in which children in kindergarten do notice skin color differences and modelling racist behaviors such as rejecting those not of the same skin color.

In Kenya, if a mzungu (white person) was to come into an isolated village full of Africans, babies tend to cry, afraid of the white monster coming to eat them.

[debeest]

Scientists generally agree that "race" is not an objectively valid term. Genetic differences between "races" are less than genetic differences within "races." "Race" exists only as a subjective concept on which different people do not agree. The classic white/black/yellow differentiation is drastically inadequate. Hispanics and Asian Indians and American Indians are all hard to categorize within that simplistic system.

We can try all we want to define "races," but we will always produce a system inadequate to classify everyone, or even nearly everyone. If we can't use the categorization system to categorize people, what's it good for? Let's do away with the concept.

[Caligastia]

Catagorizing groups of people and noting their common traits is fine as long as you treat people as individuals on a one-to-one basis.

[Q Classic]

race only exists for people who make it exists.

there are far too many people who act as if exists, as if it makes a difference...

until everybody realizes it's a non-issue, we'll always have racism.

incidentally, you've heard of www.tolerance.org?

those are the tests which supposedly uncover a hidden bias.
i took the asian/american one, and found that i have a moderate automatic association of asian with american--meaning that i think asians are more american than white people. curious, no? not sure if i believe the results.

[chequita guevara]

Race among humans is a social construct. It only exists because we say it exists. People on the bottom tend to be "Black," regardless of their ancestral-origin, skin color, etc. People on the top tend to be "white," not that many of these "whites" would be recognizable as white to most Westerners.

The human race is a continuem. There are no clearly recognized boundries between one group and anthore. We blend into each other. Furthermore, we can all interbreed.