NASA to annouce life on Mars

[The Mad Monk]

You know, we had this exact same conversation not so long ago, but the thread has disappeared.

[Sandman]

I agree with Azazel. Interplanetary capitalism is unworkable in all but the long term.

The people who colonise Mars won't go there out of desire for profit, but because of pioneer spirit.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Compared to the costs of bringing them from Earth, the cost of extracting raw materials from the Moon is quite reasonable.

It doesn't have the heavier elements IIRC.

[The Mad Monk]

The problem with both the Moon and Mars is that we've done our "prospecting" via remote sensing (IR scans, etc), and very limited ones at that. They were very surprised when one of the rovers discovered sulfur salts.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Ned


You are going to have to ask the experts on that issue. However the North Sea seems to be managed by treaty between Norway and the UK.

It was a rhetorical question. Oil exploration regularly takes place in international waters, and there are many oil rigs to be found in international waters. I would also point out that fishing occurs in international waters.

Therefore 'rights' to 'international waters' property occur all the time. I don't see lack of ownership treaties is the reason that the oceans are not explored or resources harvested. I think its that most businesses would not consider the exploration costs worth it. If what you were saying were true, business would be setting up in territorial waters at least, where such deals could be agreed on at a national level.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


It doesn't have the heavier elements IIRC.

I thought they had tons of metals in the regolith.

[The Mad Monk]

They do -- when I discussed this with Krazyhorse a few months ago, I found several papers discussing element distributions; unfortunately, the thread where I posted them seems to have gone bye-bye.

I do remember Fe percentages as high as 14% in certain regions, which one would expect from a crust composed of mostly basalts.

[Az]

Yeah, I remember that, as well.

I think that we can all agree that a permament 'commercial' settlement of the moon first is the way to go. And the fun thing is, the more we get into space, the more profitable the moon will be. ( metal in space)

Once again, we have to ponder, though, the needed industries. I think that the moon must be independent in terms of life support, energy, as well as maintain facilities of mining, and smelting of the needed metals, as well as manufacturing of many basic, and intermediate components for maintenance, like bolts, screws, manual tools, machine spare parts.

Here comes another great benefit. To make it REALLY work, standards of machines by different manufacturers, etc. will have to converge, since special new standards for the moon will drive initial prices upward a lot. This, coupled with the deregulation of space in terms of testing needed for the tools 'up there', that would come from the ordinary, daily use of these instead of the 'OMG OMG WE'RE ON THE MOON MA!' mentality, will create better efficiency.

Also, the new models of vehicles and machines will make fossil fuels and the internal combustion engine we all hate to love obsolete.

Thus, a colonization of the moon, will create conditions of need for extreme technological adaptation and prowess, as well as ( ironically? not really) forcing more cooperation than competition in the bases themselves ( but not between the different nations that would launch those ).

[Ned]

Big Crunch, are you sure there are oil platforms operating in international waters without the protection of any nation? Remember, states have a 200 mile limit to their jurisdiction.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Ned
Big Crunch, are you sure there are oil platforms operating in international waters without the protection of any nation? Remember, states have a 200 mile limit to their jurisdiction.

I was under the impression it was 12 miles.

[Az]

BC: IIRC, there are a number of different definitions . 12 miles are territorial waters, but the limit to offshore platforms is larger. ( still it bounds watermass with land )

[Urban Ranger]

I think the 200 km (I think it's km) refers to economic developments.

[Az]

I thought it was miles. Well that's not the point, we're getting off-topic.

I still don't see interplanetary capitalism. Oh, and it's not because I am a communist. I'd rather see a capitalist humanity covering numerous solar systems, than an earth-only communist paradise. But I just don't think that interplanetary capitalism is feasible.

[monkspider]

Exactly right Az, just wait until we Commies make it to the moon. You capitalists are going to be pissing your pants.

[Az]

'One Million Dollars!'