The Haitian Solution

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
And the embargo should stay until Castro stops executing the opposition.

Thought so. Chicken.

[Pax]

France had a democratic free market economy when they invaded Vietnam and made it a law for the consumption and tax on opium and other harmful products.
Britain was a democratic free market country during the Opium Wars.

I would have to say that a communist government that does not force its people to use opium is better than a free one that does.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
Britain was a democratic free market country during the Opium Wars.

No dispute on France. But Britain was a monarchy.. the 19th century opium wars with China correct?

I would have to say that a communist government that does not force its people to use opium is better than a free one that does.

I am not proposing to have one that does. Stop pulling words out thin air and trying to degrade my opinion on the issue.

[Pax]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why would we possibly think that the dictatorial regime you suggest would work better than any of the others Haiti has tried?

All of the other dictatorial regimes have not had the same type of goal I mentioned. Most have had some faction with an agenda that does help everyone only the faction members. Once again think Boss Tweed. All have had to start out corrupt by pretending to have fair elections. The first sin is the lie. After that the rest is easy.
Let's not pretend to be having fair elections. Let's set up a government that is going to benefit the people by rebuilding. After the country it's get to a certain level of prosperity then we take off the training wheels. SLOWLY.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
I think a more federal system, with a weaker central government that responds to the budget and security is needed.

Finally you make a real suggestion instead of trying cut down mine. Okay we have a weak central government similar to the type the U.S. had right after the Revolution. This had the states printing there own money, refusing to give financial support to the central government and armed conflict with eachother. This almost like the situation Haiti already has.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
But Britain was a monarchy.. the 19th century opium wars with China correct?

Um, Britain's monarchy in the 19th century didn't have the power, the Parliament did. It had been a constitutional monarchy for some time...

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus

Finally you make a real suggestion instead of trying cut down mine. Okay we have a weak central government similar to the type the U.S. had right after the Revolution. This had the states printing there own money, refusing to give financial support to the central government and armed conflict with eachother. This almost like the situation Haiti already has.

Again wrong. That is not the type of government I propose. You are twisting my words and pulling things out of nowhere I never said. I am talking about a federalist system, set up in the way like the US. So states have a reasonable but not overwhelming amount of power. I am not talking about the Articles of Confederation, and I never suggested a Confederation type of government.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Stop pulling words out thin air and trying to degrade my opinion on the issue.

I'm just stating that Vietnam and China are better off now than before. If only for the fact that these countries now have control over their own destinies. I'm willing to bet that neither France nor Britain would be able to push these countries around like they did before these countries were communist.

[Pax]

I also maintain that Cuba is in the same boat as Vietnam and China. Maybe democracy is the ultimate way to go but if I was in Haiti I would be tired of democracy and be looking for some repression under communism.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus

I'm just stating that Vietnam and China are better off now than before. If only for the fact that these countries now have control over their own destinies. I'm willing to bet that neither France nor Britain would be able to push these countries around like they did before these countries were communist.

The only reason Vietnam and China are better off now than they were before is because of FDI (foreign direct investment) and capitalism. These countries are not really communist but moreso capitalist than anything.

I also maintain that Cuba is in the same boat as Vietnam and China.

Not at all. FDI is lacking in Cuba.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


Again wrong. That is not the type of government I propose. You are twisting my words and pulling things out of nowhere I never said. I am talking about a federalist system, set up in the way like the US. So states have a reasonable but not overwhelming amount of power. I am not talking about the Articles of Confederation, and I never suggested a Confederation type of government.

I'm sorry. Is federalism a strong or weak form of central power? I thought you said a weak central government.

[Pax]

Point blank.
Which system is working better Haiti's or Cuba's?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus

I'm sorry. Is federalism a strong or weak form of central power? I thought you said a weak central government.

Well I am not talking about a confederated form of government. That won't work. That is a very weak central government. I am talking about one that has more power but less than the system you propose but where states have power too. Something like the US system.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
All of the other dictatorial regimes have not had the same type of goal I mentioned.

You still didn't answer my question. So far your only answer seems to be a slightly stupid chant that because dictator has fuzzy feelings about people and stuff he maight not be all bad.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


Well I am not talking about a confederated form of government. That won't work. That is a very weak central government. I am talking about one that has more power but less than the system you propose but where states have power too. Something like the US system.

Haiti is very small there really is no need for the system you're talking about. It sounds like extra laws. Extra bureaucracy can lead to extra corruption. This country needs clear laws and a strong government to maintain the rule of law.