If God is supreme, how does the devil rival him?

[Nubclear]

I'm a Christian commie too

[Sava]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
I'm a Christian commie too

no, yer an pvil ruskie

[Nubclear]

Americans are _________, throw _________ at them!

[Imran Siddiqui]

he's a christian commie.... that's like a "moderate libertarian"

Yep... since I'm quite aware of many Christian Communist scholars . Thanks for agreeing with me.

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Aeson


This doesn't make any sense. If God created perfect entities who then chose to become 'demons' or whatever outside the world and the temporal system then why can't someone make the opposite choice under the same circumstances? Does free will cease to exist after we die?

If they are still capable of repenting and there is enough good left in them, then yes, they can be saved.

But keep in mind that the world exists in time. The afterlife does not. While on Earth, we can work on our soul, can choose to turn away from God or move towards him. But after death, you are now outside of time and your soul is locked into place as it was when you died. Time in its most literal sense, is up.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by Sava
but if god is omniscient, he knew there would be evil... so he knowingly created evil... doesn't that make god evil?

God did not create evil. He gave the created the ability to choose. That refers to human beings, for us, God is not as visible as the comp screen before you, but rather, you have the choice of believing him or rejecting him. This ability to choose is what makes man superior to angels. And Satan is angel too, and angels by definition are intelligent but God is obvious to them, unlike us, so they have no choice. For them, it's not an issue of believing, it's one of seeing. Satan rebelled against God in full knowledge of God and his infinite wisdom. That was why he's an outcast now. Cursed, that is.


The whole idea of God vs Satan is a misconception of God, and elevation of Satan to a contender to God. There's no contest. We as humans everyday make choices and decisions. We are responsible in this world before the law and in the other before God for our choices. Satan's role is he reminds of the "bad" choice, he whispers it into our heart. This as such is not a war against God, but against man.

YOU SEXIST MALE PIGS! GOD IS NOT NECESSARILY A HE!!!!!!!!!! IF I DON'T SEE YOU REFFERING TO GOD A S/HE SOON I'M GONNA HAVE THE GUERILLA GOIRLS ON YOUR ASS FASTER THAN YOU CAN SAY FEMINAZI!

God has no sex, sex is an attribute of the created, not the creator. God needs no reproduction. As such, God is not a he or she, but the structure of western languages imposes a sexual difference in concepts in the minds of their speakers. In Turkish for example, there's no gender for third persons, everybody is referred to as the same third person singular ("o"). I don't know how to sole this dilemma in English, but I guess I have to stick with the conventional "he" .

[monkspider]

Originally posted by MrBaggins


Does pro-god or anti-god have anything to do with social justice issues?

Philosophies that represent the opposite of God's nature are anti-God. Jimmytrick has made it quite clear on numerous occassions that he supports such philosophies and has shown considerable disdain towards philosophies that do manifest God's nature in one form or another.

As for the priest, well, I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


Because God created us, and Satan moreso, so with a strong intellect and will that would be capable of comprehending such issues. Being able to comprehend the choice to love God or to not love God, and especially to have the capacity to choose to reject God, is nessecary in order to freely choose to love God. And if we did not have that choice, our love could not be genuine.

So he created us with the knowlege. Do you thus agree that having knowlege (as would pertain to the choice and it's consequences) is a prerequisite of having the ability to choose?

If he gave us the knowlege to know how to choose, and like you say, being with him is where we are most happy (eh, whatever that means), why would anyone or anything choose to be anywhere but where they were most happy? (while given a perfect knowlege of the choices available and the consequences of their decision)

Why are we on the other hand required to chose without a perfect knowlege?

[Shi Huangdi]

"Perhaps, however they are further away from God than a devout Christian, correct? "

While the devout Christian may have a closer relationship with God, both the Christian and the athiest are equally in a God-Filled world that was God's good creation.

"Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven".

I don't know what authority anyone can have in hell, but the choice is certainly there for anyone to make if they don't want to serve God.

[Aeson]

But keep in mind that the world exists in time. The afterlife does not. While on Earth, we can work on our soul, can choose to turn away from God or move towards him. But after death, you are now outside of time and your soul is locked into place as it was when you died. Time in its most literal sense, is up.

Still doesn't make any sense. If a choice could be made outside this life and world... outside time as you say... before when Lucifer made his choice, then why not after we die as well? You say they chose to move away from God while not alive, why can't we move towards God while not alive? If you can't move towards or away from God outside of this life, then how did Lucifer move away from God without ever being born into this world?

[monolith94]

Shi, you seem to be under the impression that demons (fallen angels) have free will. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that Angels have free will.

"But why would they rebel if they don't have free-will?" one asks. And there is the problem: the solution of course is to realize that they are tools of God's wrath, which is the mirror of God's grace.

[Nubclear]

While the devout Christian may have a closer relationship with God, both the Christian and the athiest are equally in a God-Filled world that was God's good creation.

But a devout Christian is closer. Therefore happier, correct?
Your acting like a religious fundie....

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Aeson


So he created us with the knowlege. Do you thus agree that having knowlege (as would pertain to the choice and it's consequences) is a prerequisite of having the ability to choose?

If he gave us the knowlege to know how to choose, and like you say, being with him is where we are most happy (eh, whatever that means), why would anyone or anything choose to be anywhere but where they were most happy? (while given a perfect knowlege of the choices available and the consequences of their decision)

Why are we on the other hand required to chose without a perfect knowlege?

Whether or not we know of God, he still acts on us through the Holy Spirit and through our conscience. If imperfect knowledge was the impediment, we hold out hope that through the extraordinary power and grace of God that they can be saved.

With perfect knowledge, you ask why anyone would not choose God. While it is certainly in our interest to choose God, and that would be the most rational choose, we don't not always make the best or most rational choice as is plainly visible.

[Imran Siddiqui]

the choice is certainly there for anyone to make if they don't want to serve God.

Humanity decided slavery to other humans was wrong. I think it is about time to say being slaves to a deity is wrong as well.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm a slave to Allah.