If God is supreme, how does the devil rival him?

[monkspider]

Now that Shi is gone, I will happily answer anyone's questions about God, the afterlife, spirituality, and anything related to such topics.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


Free will persists. The Athiest can choose to ignore any external influence and do what they want should they so choose.

And so they do. So God has no influence.

So my question to athiests stands. Are you miserable?

[Sava]

Originally posted by monkspider


God created us to have the option to choose, some of us choose evil, others do not. Lucifer just happened to choose evil.

but God is omniscient...so he KNEW Lucifer would choose evil... so in creating Lucifer, he knew he was creating someone who was evil!

[Sava]

So my question to athiests stands. Are you miserable?

I'm not sure if I'm an atheist per se... but yes, I'm miserable... but not because I don't believe in the judeo-christian god.

[Drake Tungsten]

but God is omniscient...so he KNEW Lucifer would choose evil... so in creating Lucifer, he knew he was creating someone who was evil!

True, but without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometime.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Sava
but God is omniscient...so he KNEW Lucifer would choose evil... so in creating Lucifer, he knew he was creating someone who was evil!

He was creating someone who experiences their ups and downs in spiritual growth just like the rest of us, although his downs are probably a bit more famous than most.

[Imran Siddiqui]

True, but without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometime.

Up There! Up There!

[monkspider]

Any other questions along these lines at all? It's rare that I get a chance to sit down and have a serious discussion like this.

[Nubclear]

Is the Bible the word of god?

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Is the Bible the word of god?

Like all works of man, it does manifest God's nature to some extent, but it is not without flaw . It is truly amongst the most sacred books in humanity's repetoire, but it is not the final word that fundamentalist christians believe it is. There is a great deal of wisdom that can be absorbed through it's teachings, especially in the four gospels and Jesus' teachings.

Audobon once said that "When the book and the bird disagree, trust the bird." If one learns to read the Bible in such a way, that is, actively look for God's truth, it can be much more spiritually rewarding than just reading it with a fundamentalist mindset.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Also, Ancyrean, I pose to you this, if Hell is temporary, what if I don't want to ever be with God or a slave to him if I hate him so much? Why should I ever have to go into perfect union with Allah? If in the end we all have to choose Allah anyway, that there really isn't a whole lot of free will.

Hi Shi

The issue is not about being with God. We're with God already, in the sense that he's with us and around us already. But if you take by "to be with God" as to mean "I disagree with what relgion says about good and sin and I don't want to accept these", then I mean in all religions there are absolute definitions of good and evil, and there's no negotiation about it. Accordingly, the ability to choose operates in those parameters defined by religion.

Those absolutes are defined in terms of their consequences: for example, lying is a sin because it harms somebody (this is a rough analogy, I know there are white lies, but forgive the imprefection of analogy here), or yourself. So is killing. So is whatever you can come up with as "sin". It involves some harm somewhere down the road. If a person lives on lying or killing or whatever sin, and likes it, then this does not bring exemption from the definition. Nor does anybody's time in hell to get purified from it changes the nature of freedom. A universe in which individuals define subjective sins there's no order. So, one has to accept there are some rules, and not take offense if they are against anybody's liking.

One can of course, choose to reject all. But that's what makes us so special, and no, such people are not cursed, they will reach salvation after they go through the process of maturation. You can shorten it by trying to mature here on earth, or else it'll go on after life.

If I understand your point correctly, you point to the fact that choice that I speak of is not absolute in nature. But ability to choose stops short of definig the parameters of creation. After all, even a non-believer will realise, opon facing it, in judgement day, that there's a God, and that his wisdom is more than ours, and therefore he knew it better It was just that we were tested

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by Sava
so? he still knows what we will choose... and he still knew that Satan would be evil... so he created evil

On a higher plane of thought, "goodness" make sense only in the presence of "evil", if there's something to compare it with. Just like male gender is meaningful if there's a female gender. If everybody was of one sex, then the concept of sex wouldnt ever be realised. So, giving us the ability to choose requires that there be something to choose between. Creating a universe in which a choice might lead to either good or evil is different from creating evil as such. If there was no evil, we all would be automatons of uniform behaviour, just like angels.

It's not that God created evil with a cynical view to pose as king, but rather that the fact that he gave us the freedom to choose necessitated that the choice is not always uniform, that evil "happens".

In fact, even Satan fears God in this respect, for it does not so blatantly commits acts of evil itself, it fears God still. It's us, humans, that can choose to do things that are outrageous, because some among us fear not God. Think of all the atrocities in human history...Satan would refrain from doing them for fear of God...Satan only shows us the other way...That much, God permits...

[Dis]

why so many religious threads?

the answer is simple.

God allows Lucifer to exist so he can listen to cool heavy metal music written about lucifer.

Lates face it. Satanic music is better than christian music.

[Sikander]

Tyler's take on the matter:

----------------

TYLER
Shut up. Our fathers were our models
for God. And, if our fathers bailed,
what does that tell us about God?

JACK
I don't know...

SHOT OF EMBERS POURING FROM THE HELLISH FOREST FIRE. RESUME:

Tyler SLAPS Jack's face again...

TYLER
Listen to me. You have to consider
the possibility that God doesn't like
you, he never wanted you. In all
probability, He hates you. This is
not the worst thing that can happen...

JACK
It isn't... ?

TYLER
We don't need him...

JACK
We don't... ?

[bipolarbear]

Lates face it. Satanic music is better than christian music.

How true!
What about the whole issue of yin and yan? God can't exist w/o Satan. Satan validates, and negates god's actions and existence.