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  • If Kerry becomes Prez



    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - John Kerry is offering American voters a far different vision of the U.S. role in international affairs than President Bush, one that much of the world may find more familiar and more comforting.

    The Democratic senator from Massachusetts, now leading in the race for his party's presidential nomination, has accused Bush of extremism in waging the "most arrogant, inept, reckless and ideological foreign policy in modern history."

    While insisting he would never cede U.S. security to any nation or institution and will use force when necessary, Kerry envisions a "new era of alliances (because) even the only superpower on earth cannot succeed without cooperation and compromise with our friends and allies."

    Following the Sept. 11 attacks and the Iraq war, national security has become a focus of the 2004 presidential campaign and some analysts predict the November election could turn on which candidate persuades voters he will keep the country safe and best fulfill the role of U.S. commander-in-chief.

    This is a far cry from four years ago, when domestic matters dominated the presidential debate.

    Republicans usually score higher with U.S. voters on national security. They to exploit this tradition with Bush, who increased military spending and led the nation through conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and the anti-terror campaign.

    Kerry aims to blunt that record by promoting credentials as a decorated Vietnam veteran who plunged into politics on returning home by protesting the very war he fought in.

    SENATE CAREER

    During a Senate career spanning 20 years, Kerry, a liberal, emphasized foreign affairs and played a major role in restoring U.S. ties with Vietnam.

    He voted against sending troops to the 1991 Gulf War and sought to cancel major weapons systems like the Patriot missile and the F15 jet fighter.
    The fact that he served in Vietnam is irrelevant, I think he has the stereotype liberals viewpoint of the military and the use of force.

    Fair or unfair assessment?

    In any case, the above blurb from reuters brought to mind the only relevant question for me vis a vis the election;

    If elected president, would Kerry do anything concrete if the USA was threatened/attacked or would we back to the Clintonian "fire a couple of missles and pretend like the problem has gone away".

    He talks about not ceding US security away but I dont see it. Who are these new allies gonna be, stalwarts like the French?
    We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
    If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
    Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

  • #2


    Was kerry opposed to Afghanistan?

    Wake up folks- Iraq was fully a war of choice NOT driven by any current dangers but by a scheme to rebuild the ME top, as it were, drain the swamp.

    Arguing against this policy is not being "weak on defense".
    If you don't like reality, change it! me
    "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
    "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
    "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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    • #3
      Answer the question.
      We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
      If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
      Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

      Comment


      • #4
        If Kerry becomes Prez, my avatar in '05 will be the Stars and Stripes.
        justice is might

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: If Kerry becomes Prez

          Originally posted by SpencerH
          He talks about not ceding US security away but I dont see it. Who are these new allies gonna be, stalwarts like the French?
          When exactly were the French not stalwart allies?
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: If Kerry becomes Prez

            Originally posted by SpencerH

            The fact that he served in Vietnam is irrelevant, I think he has the stereotype liberals viewpoint of the military and the use of force.
            Define the "stereotype liberals viewpoint." If it means not invading other countries on trumped-up false charges, yes, he's a typical liberal.

            If it means assuming that the U.S. has to live in the whole world and can't completely ignore the opinions of all countries, yes.

            If it means avoiding war unless it's absolutely necessary, well, no, I guess he's sort of in the middle between liberals and "make war for no apparent reason" conservatives.

            If it means following rules of international law, yes, he's a liberal.

            If it means not lying to the public in order to foment war in an effort to ensure your own re-election, he's probably somewhat liberal, but maybe not so much more than the current (p)resident.

            Comment


            • #7
              If Kerry wins, I won't leave the country but I would be very worried. Kerry's policies if implemented would be very bad for the US.
              'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
              G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The diplomat
                If Kerry wins, I won't leave the country but I would be very worried. Kerry's policies if implemented would be very bad for the US.
                What consequences do you foresee?
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                Comment


                • #9
                  If Kerry were Prez, it would make no difference to US foreign policy.

                  US foreign policy is dictated by organisations over and above the Presidency.

                  If a chimpanzee replaced Bush, the only difference would be Presidential speeches might be more meaningful.
                  Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
                  "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

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                  • #10
                    Re: Re: If Kerry becomes Prez

                    Originally posted by Spiffor

                    When exactly were the French not stalwart allies?
                    The instant the allies left French soil until the present.

                    BTW I'm not trying to take pot-shots, you're entitled to your own opinion, but the french have not supported american military actions taken against its enemies.
                    We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                    If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                    Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The diplomat
                      If Kerry wins, I won't leave the country but I would be very worried. Kerry's policies if implemented would be very bad for the US.
                      As opposed to Bush's policies which have been implemented and have been bad for the U.S.?
                      I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                      I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                      • #12
                        JFK! JFK! JFK!
                        justice is might

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Spiffor

                          What consequences do you foresee?
                          If Kerry replaced US troops in Iraq with more international troops, and pulled US troops out, we would see a less stable Iraq, as terror groups would become emboldened to strike harder.

                          Kerry's policies of relying more on international cooperation in the war on terror, would make it easier for Al Queda to regroup, resulting in a higher likelihood of terror attacks in the middle east.

                          Kerry's domestic policies of higher taxes on the wealthy and big businesses, would result in lower GDP growth, which would hurt the economy.
                          'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                          G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            debeest

                            their are lots of other threads for your rhetoric

                            The question is simple, would Kerry a liberal (define it how you will) anti-war activist who is despised by many vets take action?
                            We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                            If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                            Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Re: Re: If Kerry becomes Prez

                              Originally posted by SpencerH

                              BTW I'm not trying to take pot-shots, you're entitled to your own opinion, but the french have not supported american military actions taken against its enemies.
                              Yeah, like the US supported the French, Brits and Israelis over Suez...

                              Thank you for showing just what you're made of in Indo China.
                              Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
                              "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

                              Comment

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