If Kerry becomes Prez

[chequita guevara]

SpenceH, remember at the time most of us thought Clinton was doing too much. Remember Eschalon and Carnivore? They were trying to kill OBL, and they thwarted a few different terrorist attacks. The Republicans, however, repeatedly denied Clintno the authority to do what he felt necessary to go after Islamic terrorists. I'm not gonna say Cltinon is guilt free, since if he hadn't been trying to appease right-wingers with appointments like Freeh and making the Drug War top policy, maybe he would have concentrated more on terrorism. We can't know that, however. We do know, however, that the Bush Adminstration completely ignored the terrorist threat until 9/11, so one can't do any worse the Bush.

[GePap]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I thought its a pretty simple question, but one that goes to the heart of the matter. I dont trust that Kerry will maintain military and intel vigilance and I dont trust him to take effective action.

So you are asking that I answer your opinons? Excuse me???



Well, good for you..I don;t agree, but good for you.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GePap


So you are asking that I answer your opinons? Excuse me???



Well, good for you..I don;t agree, but good for you.

No, I'm asking whether you think Kerry would take effective military action against a threat to this country, and I cited examples of presidents that I believe did and did not do so. I then merely stated my answer to the question. You, on the other hand continue to waffle. If you ever get in, you'll make a wonderful diplomat.

[Sava]

Originally posted by SpencerH


No, I'm asking whether you think Kerry would take effective military action against a threat to this country, and I cited examples of presidents that I believe did and did not do so. I then merely stated my answer to the question. You, on the other hand continue to waffle. If you ever get in, you'll make a wonderful diplomat.

If North Korea launched a missile at us... I think Kerry would respond with the full force of the US military.

What makes you think Bush is good for national security? Because he attacked Iraq? a country that didn't threaten us...

but yet Bush is coddling the Saudi's, ignoring Iran and North Korea... and placating Red China. Sounds like he's protecting America's national security.

[GePap]

First- I have no idea what your definition of "effective action" is. I already stated what I think his policies will be- that to me seems a rather obvious answer- left for you to decide if yout hink those policies would be effective.

I love this method of debate- ask question, get very detailed answer: "Oh no, waffling!" BULLSH!T.

Reread my answer- that is what i think kerry will do policywise. Will it be effective? I don;t have a magic ball, so how the hell do I know?

Certainly he will be more effective than the first 9 months of the Bush precidency--is that the answer you are looking for?!

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
SpenceH, remember at the time most of us thought Clinton was doing too much. Remember Eschalon and Carnivore? They were trying to kill OBL, and they thwarted a few different terrorist attacks. The Republicans, however, repeatedly denied Clintno the authority to do what he felt necessary to go after Islamic terrorists. I'm not gonna say Cltinon is guilt free, since if he hadn't been trying to appease right-wingers with appointments like Freeh and making the Drug War top policy, maybe he would have concentrated more on terrorism. We can't know that, however. We do know, however, that the Bush Adminstration completely ignored the terrorist threat until 9/11, so one can't do any worse the Bush.

Interesting viewpoint.

So you would say that under the right circumstances that Clinton would have taken action? He seemed to play up the Camelot crap and Kennedy, sure as **** , would've acted.

How do you explain the debacle in Somalia? That was Carteresque in its stupidity.

[Sava]

How do you explain the debacle in Somalia? That was Carteresque in its stupidity.

I recall Bush I first establishing a US presence there. I also recall strong Republican support, at the time.

any more BS for me to dispell?

[GePap]

Originally posted by SpencerH

How do you explain the debacle in Somalia? That was Carteresque in its stupidity.

If I remember- 1. It was Poppa bush that brought the US into Somalia. Clinto ran into trouble whern he attempted, instead of just intervening to keep UN food shipments safe, to arrest the warlord (forgot his name), ie. when he decided to expand the mission- and then he got spanked by the press and the right when "blakchawk down" occured.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Sava
If North Korea launched a missile at us... I think Kerry would respond with the full force of the US military.

Thank you for your answer. Gepap take note!

But would Kerry act against a perceived threat i.e. some new fundamentalist Iranian Mullahs' vow to build nuclear weapons for the Jihad against america and intel says they're doing it.

[Capt Dizle]

Kerry got his Silver Star by dashing into a hootch containing dead and dying Viet Cong. He then proceeded to execute the dying and walked out with a rocket launcher.

[Sava]

Originally posted by GePap


If I remember- 1. It was Poppa bush that brought the US into Somalia. Clinto ran into trouble whern he attempted, instead of just intervening to keep UN food shipments safe, to arrest the warlord (forgot his name), ie. when he decided to expand the mission- and then he got spanked by the press and the right when "blakchawk down" occured.

absolutely correct... George HW Bush got us in Somalia... Clinton got us out.

http://www.cdi.org/adm/713/transcript.html

On December 4, 1992 President George Bush announced he was sending up to 28,000 US troops to Somalia to help provide humanitarian relief in a strife-torn country where hundreds of thousands of people had died of starvation. Not quite a year later, shortly after a failed raid that took the lives of 18 American servicemen, President Bill Clinton announced an exit strategy for the United States.

[SpencerH]

Bush senior did indeed send an army into Somalia. An army that achieved its ends. Clinton reduced the force size and hamstrung the troops with PC bull**** while nation-building.

[Kontiki]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If Kerry becomes Prez

Originally posted by SpencerH


I dont recall France 'jumping in' during GW1 (but I may be mistaken)

You are mistaken. France sent a sizeable contingent during GWI, including 18,000 troops, 60 combat aircraft, 120 helicopters, 40 tanks, 100 armored vehicles, 1 missile cruiser, 3 destroyers, 4 frigates.

http://www.cryan.com/war/AlliedForces.html

The French forces were also among the first into combat, the first to secure their objectives and were widely regarded as some of the best in whole operation.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Kerry got his Silver Star by dashing into a hootch containing dead and dying Viet Cong. He then proceeded to execute the dying and walked out with a rocket launcher.

irrelevant

Three purple hearts, a silver star, and a bronze star. His war record is not the question.

[Sava]

Originally posted by SpencerH
But would Kerry act against a perceived threat i.e. some new fundamentalist Iranian Mullahs' vow to build nuclear weapons for the Jihad against america and intel says they're doing it.

Clinton did more against terrorism between 1998 and 2000 than Bush has done in 3 years.

http://nsi.org/Library/Terrorism/rites.htm

The Clinton Administration wrote the basics of the Patriot Act in 1995.

The legislation would:

authorize the Justice Department to pick and choose crimes to investigate and prosecute based on political beliefs and associations;

repeal the ancient provision barring the U.S. military from civilian law enforcement;

expand a pre-trial detention scheme that puts the burden of proof on the accused;

loosen the carefully-crafted rules governing federal wiretaps, in violation of the Fourth Amendment;

establish special courts that would use secret evidence to order the deportation of persons convicted of no crimes, in violation of basic principles of due process;

permit permanent detention by the Attorney General of aliens convicted of no crimes, with no judicial review;

give the President unreviewable power to criminalize fund-raising for lawful activities associated with unpopular causes;

renege on the Administration's approval in the last Congress of a provision to insure that the FBI would not investigate based on First Amendment activities; and

resurrect the discredited ideological visa denial provisions of the McCarran Walter Act to bar foreign speakers

If Clinton (and liberals) are so inept at foreign policy and dealing with terrorism, how come George Tenet was kept on as CIA director when Bush took over? How come George Tenet described the Clinton/Gore White House as "obsessed with terrorism" in 2000? The right is trying to make Tenet the fall guy for the WMD mess... but the real culprit was the Pentagon Office of Special Plans. The CIA did not give the president the exagerrated intelligence that Bushy used to convince the American people to support the Iraq War.