Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

California voters: Do you support prop 57 and 58?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Steve Lopez, an editorial columnist for LA Times, made some good points against those Props. I'm curious what you guys think, especially Giancarlo.

    This Bitter Pill Is Too Hard to Swallow
    Steve Lopez

    February 22, 2004

    Like all good Californians, I guess I'm supposed to open my mouth and take my medicine next week at the polls.

    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has been telling us this is the way it has to be, and U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein is one of many Democratic pushovers who agree that Proposition 57 is the way to fix what ails us.

    If Californians fail to pass the $15-billion bond measure, they warn in their fear campaign, we'll face Armageddon. All the Prop. 57 cheerleaders love using that word.

    Well guess what.

    I don't want to take my medicine. And I particularly don't appreciate having someone try to ram it down my throat.

    Reasonable people can certainly conclude that Prop. 57 is an acceptable way to begin digging out of our horrible mess. But I'm tired of being told it's the only way, particularly by a flip-flop governor who campaigned as a committed critic of borrowing.

    Schwarzenegger, the anti-special interest candidate, will be in New York this week at a $500,000-a-plate dinner. He wants to make sure he can bankroll the estimated $10-million blitz of Prop. 57 ads we'll be forced to endure between now and March 2.

    You won't see any ads from the other side, because all the big money is lined up in support of Prop. 57, which should tell you all you need to know.

    If there were an ad for the other side, it'd go something like this:

    Remember the last time you and your family had trouble balancing the books?

    Chances are, you did what all of us do. You cut back a little, you logged a few hours of overtime or found some other way to boost your income, and you reluctantly pulled out the credit cards as a last resort.

    Gov. Schwarzenegger wants to use credit cards as a first option, running up an ungodly debt that would saddle you and your children with the tab for years to come.

    Why? Because his wealthy friends on Wall Street and in California will make out like bandits under his plan, while middle-class and low-income families get the short end of the stick.

    As state Treasurer Phil Angelides explains, Prop. 57 would be almost entirely paid for by a portion of the existing sales tax, which means middle- and lower-income families would fork over a higher portion of their incomes than the wealthy. They'd also get whacked when $1.2 billion worth of that sales tax was diverted annually from existing services to pay off Prop. 57.

    The cuts "won't come from repair service on yachts," Angelides said. Lower and higher education, health care and other programs vital to working families will take the hit.

    So far, Californians seem to be wise to the ruse. A poll last week showed only 38% support for Prop. 57. But who knows what 10 days and $10 million worth of shilling by a movie star can accomplish?

    In the event Prop. 57 tanks, Angelides, a Democrat, has offered up a Plan B. The only problem I have with it is that it isn't Plan A.

    Angelides would do some cutting, borrow less and pay it off faster, and raise money from two taxes.

    One is an existing 1/4-cent sales tax that would be used to retire Prop. 57 debt under Schwarzenegger's plan. The Angelides alternative would draw on that 1/4 cent for just three years, as opposed to at least three times as long under Prop. 57.

    The other tax would temporarily hike the top income bracket on the wealthiest Californians.

    If anyone in that group is planning to call up and scream at me about your unfair burden, cancel your subscription or send me three-hanky stories about the hard work it took to get to the top, I'm asking you to hold off until at least the next paragraph.

    Angelides' plan would raise taxes to the precise levels used by former Republican Govs. Ronald Reagan and Pete Wilson.

    Individuals making $140,000 and couples making $280,000 would go from 9.3% to 10%. Individuals making $280,000 and couples making $560,000 would go from 9.3% to 11%.

    That doesn't sound to me like a tragic amount of suffering, especially when you take the following into consideration:

    "When you restore the Reagan-Wilson 11% tax bracket," Angelides says, that raises $2.4 billion in one year and affects roughly 1% of the population. The "same 1% gets $12.76 billion worth of federal tax cuts this year," by Angelides' accounting.

    "What's happening here," he says, "is that taxes we used to have under Wilson and Reagan and Clinton at federal and state levels have been washed away, and that's part of the reason we have today's problems."

    You haven't heard any of this, naturally, from Schwarzenegger or the lackey, star-struck Democrats who've been carrying his water on Prop. 57.

    Darkness is on the horizon, and they've barely got time to warn us of the coming Armageddon.

    *


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Steve Lopez writes Sunday, Wednesday and Friday and can be reached at steve.lopez@latimes.com. Read previous columns at latimes.com/lopez.

    Steady rain and cool temperatures will dampen spirits this weekend in Santa Paula.
    Who is Barinthus?

    Comment


    • LA times is a liberal newspaper and because of the crap they publish I cancelled my subscription to them. This guy also seems to ignore the facts. If prop 57 does not pass, there will be a debt default in June. Lopez also shows his little understanding about economics because that is what the prop is not going to do. Quite frankly, there isn't another option. Raising taxes is none less than unacceptable.
      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

      Comment


      • Hmmm, Fez had been remarkable quiet on this thread for the past several pages. He's probably working some extra hours to pay off those ungodly tuition hikes Swartenegger has hit CSUN with.

        Comment


        • I'm scrolling through it and I notice I have been posting a bit. I will pay whatever is necessary. In fact my fees are peanuts.... I have more than enough money to pay for it. So what "ungodly tuition hikes" are you talking about? I mean if I have to pay a few more bucks for an education that costs more that it does, so be it.
          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

          Comment


          • **** arnold and **** these props. they'll only make us pay it back more, later. the problem isnt a lack of funds. its spending like no other. all i have to do is look at my window and see the stupidity in spending in the UC system. dont give them more, cuz theyll just waste more of it.
            "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
              **** arnold and **** these props. they'll only make us pay it back more, later. the problem isnt a lack of funds. its spending like no other. all i have to do is look at my window and see the stupidity in spending in the UC system. dont give them more, cuz theyll just waste more of it.
              Actually the problem is lack of funds. And if these do not get passed there will be a debt default in June. But I am guessing you want that.
              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

              Comment


              • no, the problem isnt lack of funds. its spending like no other. and if these dont get passed, then theyll just need to cut back more in June.
                "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
                  no, the problem isnt lack of funds. its spending like no other. and if these dont get passed, then theyll just need to cut back more in June.
                  And that is what Arnold is also doing in his budget.. cutting back on spending. If these don't get passed, we will default on our debt. You ever been to a country that has defaulted? Both Argentina and Ecuador defaulted, they could not borrow anymore, their credit rating went to junk bond status and they were effectively screwed.
                  For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                  Comment


                  • and if he cut back enough, we wouldnt run otta money in june. obviously hes not doing enough cutting. maybe he should stop going to fundraisers in NY and stare at his budget and cut some more money outta it, until its balanced and we can make it thru the year.
                    "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
                      and if he cut back enough, we wouldnt run otta money in june. obviously hes not doing enough cutting. maybe he should stop going to fundraisers in NY and stare at his budget and cut some more money outta it, until its balanced and we can make it thru the year.
                      He is doing enough cutting. Have you even seen any of the cuts? We just have debt we have to pay off right now.
                      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                      Comment


                      • omfg

                        if hes doing enough cutting, then why are we gonna run outta money in June?
                        "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
                          omfg

                          if hes doing enough cutting, then why are we gonna run outta money in June?
                          It has to do with previous debt that we have from overspending.
                          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                          Comment


                          • Favor both b/c I trust what the Governator says.

                            My real preference though is to get out the meat axe and go after the waste. MediCal is known to be rife with fraud.
                            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                            Comment


                            • ? thats a load of ****. it has nothing to do with the previous debt and everything to do with hes not willing to cut spending enough right now to balance the budget.
                              "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
                                ? thats a load of ****. it has nothing to do with the previous debt and everything to do with hes not willing to cut spending enough right now to balance the budget.
                                Actually he is cutting quite a bit. Specifically with welfare and highway construction. You frankly have no clue.
                                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X