The Fwench.

[yavoon]

I think its messed up. but the french are scared of the muslims so why not?

it is an irony that u take everyone's tax money to build a huge socialist state then proceed to tell everyone what they can and can't wear in the state their tax money bought.

roads and sidewalks are state places too. religion shouldn't be allowed newhere near them. and also low income housing, no religion in low income housing. or in churches protected by the state, no religion in them.

[The Mad Monk]

Who's going to confuse a mangy racoon for cute chicky?

[MrFun]

Oh, and everyone -- please do not confuse me with Bennie in this thread.

[Ben Kenobi]

by definition they are all narrow-minded judgmental intolerants who think everybody else is going to the lake of fire to burn for eternity when they die, whereas Faithful people are all personal friends with The Man,

Interesting.

What would you think of a statement like this?

"For neither Baptism, Supper, nor church-fellowship, nor any other external ceremony, can without faith, the new birth, and a change or renewal of life, help or qualify us, that we may please God or recieve any consolation or promise of salvation from Him. "

"that all men without distinction, if they are obedient, through faith, follow, fulfill and live according to the precepts of the same, are his children and rightful heirs; having thus excluded none from the precious inheritance of eternal salvation."

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Spiffor, ne vous inquiètez pas. Il y a beaucoup de gens de l'autre côté de la Manche qui s'en foutent de ceux qui veulent attacquer nos voisins francais. N'importe que disent les journaux "moins chers" anglais - il n'y a pas beaucoup qui pensent comme ça.

Un francophile.

I just decided never to vote for you at Mafia

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Akka

I don't remember any law saying that people aren't free to believe in what they want, or prevented to build and attend to place suiting their beliefs, or anything like that.

UNLESS, it goes against the laws of the state.
The laws of the state say : religion is a personnal matter, that should NOT be mixed with the State.
Public school are run by the state.
Hence, no religion in public school.


Some are able to understand the concept of neutral ground and keeping personnal opinions outside state-run institutions.
Others just shout "fascists" and claim there is religious oppression.

Then they do things the weird way in France -- I fail to see the logic behind prohibiting people from expressing their religion in public schools run by the state, since that individual's expression is not necessarily equated to government endorsement of the religion.

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
But polytheistic religions are perhaps more based on morality tales, than strict laws.

Greek religion I think had no cencept of heaven, only the underworld - a dreary place.

Polytheisctic religions are often very life affirming, and leaves philosophy to a secular debate.

Alot of 'pagan' religions are as you described, the only one not described as 'pagan' by the monoatheist brigade, is Hinduism (becasue they could'nt exterminate/wipe-out/invade/convert the whole of India).

[Tripledoc]

But polytheistic religions are perhaps more based on morality tales, than strict laws.

Greek religion I think had no cencept of heaven, only the underworld - a dreary place.

Polytheisctic religions are often very life affirming, and leaves philosophy to a secular debate.

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


What about the Viking faith. You know Thor and Odin and so on?

You could say that there are two categories of religion, those that see god and his universe that he made, and those that see the universe itself- as god. In my opinion, the later category, isn't really religion, it's usually just philosophy and meditation techniques and good methods of dealing with stress or the inherant futility of will itself. The former catagory usually consists of various laws, commandments, and homocentric assertions regarding nature and time. Often, followers of that category of religion appear to reffer to a god that bears all the hallmarks of some kind of cosmic totalitarian dictator, underground gulags and glittering pleasure-palaces for those who tow the party line included.

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Akka

I don't remember any law saying that people aren't free to believe in what they want, or prevented to build and attend to place suiting their beliefs, or anything like that.

UNLESS, it goes against the laws of the state.
The laws of the state say : religion is a personnal matter, that should NOT be mixed with the State.
Public school are run by the state.
Hence, no religion in public school.


Some are able to understand the concept of neutral ground and keeping personnal opinions outside state-run institutions.
Others just shout "fascists" and claim there is religious oppression.

:b

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by problem_child
I have already admitted that I am bigotted against religions across the board (baring secular buddism and taosim)

What about the Viking faith. You know Thor and Odin and so on?

[problem_child]

look, the whole spelling France/French with a 'w' thing... I personaly can never seem to resist, I dunno why but I find it humorous and harmless, I think it's because I watched a Monty Python sketch somehwhere that also has me occasionally reffering to 'Inglis PeegDogs!'

You're right, it's not funny (for others) or clever (probably) but it's certainly wasn't intended to dominate what I think is a real discussion about Frances current issue with secularism or intolerance. That- and it's incredibly bad form in my opinion to have to explain a joke- ever, no matter how bad or mindless, better to just drop it and move on. I don't intend to seriously insult the French, and I have already admitted that I am bigotted against religions across the board (baring secular buddism and taosim)

Furthermore I think it's pretty rich for muslims to demand the right of people to wear what they will in a libertarian secular society, when non-islamic women travelling in the muslim world can find themselves harrased or even beaten for not observing the customs of a religion to which they do not even belong.

[duke o' york]

Spiffor, ne vous inquiètez pas. Il y a beaucoup de gens de l'autre côté de la Manche qui s'en foutent de ceux qui veulent attacquer nos voisins francais. N'importe que disent les journaux "moins chers" anglais - il n'y a pas beaucoup qui pensent comme ça.

Un francophile.

[Akka]

Originally posted by MrFun
So freedom of religious expression is not something to be respected?

that's lovely

I don't remember any law saying that people aren't free to believe in what they want, or prevented to build and attend to place suiting their beliefs, or anything like that.

UNLESS, it goes against the laws of the state.
The laws of the state say : religion is a personnal matter, that should NOT be mixed with the State.
Public school are run by the state.
Hence, no religion in public school.


Some are able to understand the concept of neutral ground and keeping personnal opinions outside state-run institutions.
Others just shout "fascists" and claim there is religious oppression.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Or maybe that's just another Rosbif lame word to depict our glorious people?

HE couldn't use 'frogs' because its now considered a term of endearment by many.