Russia: No CFE treaty for you!

[Sava]

hmmmm the same ppl complaing about Russia backing out of the treaty are the same ppl who didn't care the US backed out of the ABM treaty...

[Bereta_Eder]

"domination" of one over the other is old diplomatic thinking. that's what I say when i talk about the european ideal. some have it, other don't.

[The diplomat]

Well, I have always said since the very begining, that NATO expansion was a huge mistake. You can't include former Soviet Union States into your alliance and expect Russia not to see it as an encroachment on their national security.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Germany, as did France and Britain, bent over backwards to talk sence into Russia who was going start a world war over SERBIA!!!

I call BS over the assertion that Germany wasn't spoiling for a fight.

[Az]

Originally posted by The diplomat
Well, I have always said since the very begining, that NATO expansion was a huge mistake. You can't include former Soviet Union States into your alliance and expect Russia not to see it as an encroachment on their national security.

[Sandman]

I don't think complacency towards the UK is the way to go. I think the only langauge it understands is force. It has never shared the european ideal and degaulle's phrase of the brits being the worm that will eat the red apple from within becomes more and more prophetic.

The only difference between Britain and France or Germany is that Britain joined late. Because of that, it's accorded a special status as a trouble-maker, whilst France and Germany get to flout whatever EU rules they wish, and get away with it.

It's like how middle class boys are 'boisterous', whilst working class kids are 'yobs'.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
The Russians seem like a fairly peaceful people to me.

Tell that to the Afghan people. But actually, like Serb said a while ago, there's no nation on this planet that doesn't have their hands bloodied with someone else's blood. That goes for the Americans too.

Re: Napoleonic invasion of the Russian Empire, it was the sorched earth policy on Russians' part that did in Napoleon's Grand Army. Same thing for Hilter. People have kept on underestimating Russia and paid the great price in exchange.

While I don't see why Russia feel threatened by those expansions. Perhaps I'm wrong but I bet you most Westerners do not want a military conflict with Russia - it's not worth the fuss. However based on recent history between the West and Russia, I bet you Americans would be nervous if Russians established bases in Mexico and Canada like someone suggested.

Which means there needs to be greater dialogue between NATO and Russia and more efforts into allaying the Russian concerns.

[Patroklos]

You can call BS on it if you want. Of course you will be spouting BS.

Germany not only urged Russia to back down its mobilization, it also held back Austria Hungry for quite a bit on attacking Serbia. Austria didn't attack the very next day, there was quite a bit of waiting.

Serbian state backed terrorism assasinated the heir to one of the great European powers, and the Russians actually tried to back them up for that! All the key players in Europe wanted nothing more than the status quo. But those crazy Ruskkies....

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Sandman


The only difference between Britain and France or Germany is that Britain joined late. Because of that, it's accorded a special status as a trouble-maker, whilst France and Germany get to flout whatever EU rules they wish, and get away with it.

It's like how middle class boys are 'boisterous', whilst working class kids are 'yobs'.

I wish that was the case. (on a side note many other countries joined later than the UK). It is a definite distance of mentalities which is translated into concrete "anti-EU" actions. The UK never really embraced "the european idea".

[Myrddin]

Whose idea of " the european idea"?

[Pekka]

Russia has never been aggressor, and there is no aids in Africa.

To Russias benefit, the aggressions are few and far between, but they have happened.
So I guess we have a good reason to be paranoid too, and start getting nukes, right? I'm glad we're not paranoid. It's BS.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Austria was more than justified by he morality of the time to invade. Hell even now nobody would object to a few airstrikes is some country did the same sort of thing. Russia just wanted to shout

Hmm, NO. The Austro-Hunagrians served the Serbians with a ultimatum that asked them to completely violate thier sovereignty in order to give to the Austro-Hungarians what they wanted. The Serbs agreed to all the was reasonable-those things they did not agree with were in there to be rejected. The Austrian were looking for a war.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The Serbs agreed to all the was reasonable-those things they did not agree with were in there to be rejected.

Not quite. The Serbs were prepared to accept ALL provisions until Tsar Nickie called up and said they'd back the Serbs 100%. After that, the Serbs decided they didn't think a few clauses were 'reasonable'.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Not quite. The Serbs were prepared to accept ALL provisions until Tsar Nickie called up and said they'd back the Serbs 100%. After that, the Serbs decided they didn't think a few clauses were 'reasonable'.

Lets see..small state being asked unreasonble things by much larger neighbor with no friends preppares to give in..until somone big tells them..hey, we will support you..

Yup, sounds utterly criminal- also, I have never heard that assertion, so some source would be greatly appreciated.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The Serbs agreed to all the was reasonable-those things they did not agree with were in there to be rejected.

Not quite. The Serbs were prepared to accept ALL provisions until Tsar Nickie called up and said they'd back the Serbs 100%. After that, the Serbs decided they didn't think a few clauses were 'reasonable'.

Wrong (at least according to Nicholas and Alexandra). The Austrians gave the Serbs 48 hours to agree, the Serbs agreed, and the Austrians attacked anyways.