Russia: No CFE treaty for you!

[Heresson]

I thought You'd answer like that, but it's not the right understanding of what I have written. Perhaps it's my mistake, if so, sorry. What I have written was that after the war, Poland was reduced by 10 mln citizens, including over 6mln killed, and of those 6mln some were killed by Soviets.

[Barinthus]

A bit off but somewhat related.

I have a friend whose father was a child during World War II in Romania.

He told me that Romanians preferred German occupation compared to the Soviet 'liberation.' According to him, aside from their racial ideology Germans were very respectful. While they took things they needed they often make an effort to pay compensation in exchange. One story he told was about how Germans took over a school to use as barracks. When they left, Romanians found the school in a much better condition - it has been repaired and there was even a small flower garden outside.

On the other hand, when Soviets came in and liberated them, they just looted the place and took whatever they wanted without reburisments.

[Kitschum]

Originally posted by DataAeolus

On the other hand, when Soviets came in and liberated them, they just looted the place and took whatever they wanted without reburisments.

That might have something to do with Romania being an ally of Germany and participating in the invasion of the SU. So the Soviets would have had the experience of what 3 years of brutal war on their own territory, against among others the Romanians, before entering Romania. In that light the preference is not really surprising.

[Az]

First of all, if SU hadn't invaded Poland, Germany wouldn't have invaded it.

Yes, because the Nazis were offended and surprised by the soviet invasion of Poland.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Kitschum


That might have something to do with Romania being an ally of Germany and participating in the invasion of the SU. So the Soviets would have had the experience of what 3 years of brutal war on their own territory, against among others the Romanians, before entering Romania. In that light the preference is not really surprising.

Perhaps... but a liberation should be just that, not a looting fest.

[Kitschum]

Originally posted by DataAeolus


Perhaps... but a liberation should be just that, not a looting fest.

Sure, the Soviets behaved unforgivably in many places in Eastern Europe, but the situations are not comparable. Of course the Romanian civilian population would prefer the "occupation" of their allies to that of their (former) enemies after a long war.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Kitschum


Sure, the Soviets behaved unforgivably in many places in Eastern Europe, but the situations are not comparable. Of course the Romanian civilian population would prefer the "occupation" of their allies to that of their (former) enemies after a long war.

Ah well. To be fair, the Soviets were not the only one who behaved this way. No nation in history has a clean conscience except perhaps for the Swiss

[Patroklos]

Man Serb, I really need to call your insane asylum because internet access to mentally handicaped people is obviously not working in your case.

Soviet WWII apologist. It is pathetic. *****ing at people for all the injustices done to Russia (manufatured usually, but you are right by mistake sometimes) and then using the same logic you accuse the defilers applied to you for your own actions.

Your defensivness betrays your evil intent.

[Saras]

Patty, you should learn more about the Russian national psyche. It was changed immensely by WWII. A lot what he posted should be interpreted with that in mind. Not that it's a blanket excuse for some of the more obvious lunacy.

Serb, I'm actually going to Ryazan tomorrow. That's most likely the closest I'll ever be to your permafrozen city . I hear Ryazan is nice, 11th century monastery and all.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson


That's pretty cynical. When it comes to the fights, again I remind You Polish gouverment forbade fight against Soviets, which didn't stop Soviets from slaughtering some people on their way

Polish government escaped to Romania at Sep. 17. Only after that at the same day (Sept. 17) Soviet troops entered Western Ukrain and Western Beylorussia. That's what I was talking about. When Soviets entered- your government was already gone, and Poland was already a toast.

The difference was that in this "non-agression" pact, You divided everything in between You two into your sphares of influence

The same with Franco-German and British-German agreements. They claim that whole Southern Europe should be in sphere of influence of Germany and that France had no interests in Southern Europe. The only difference that Soviets actually used the situation to benefit something for themselves, while Brits and French just let Hitler do everything he wanted.

The case is much more complicated. Poland send a ultimatum to Prague before Muenchen. That's one. Secondly, after Czehoslovakia was taken by Germans, a Czech legion was being created in Poland

Oh yeah, sure. When Poland playing games with nazi and participate in division of Czechoslovakia on pair with Hitler- it's pretty complicated. But when Soviets sign a tactical treaty with Hitler to return their lands from their No1 enemy- Poland, it's quite simple- Soviets are f*ckers.

1 - that post wasn't very intelligent. This guy ment the lands Poland lost to USSR, not to Russian republic particurarly.

Blaim Floyd and American education system then.

2 - land is no war trophy. You need to have some historical or ethnical basis for your claims, it's not enough to just conquer it.

Grow-up, boy. Germany attacked USSR, brought enormous disasters to our contry, but lost this war. And you think Soviets as victors of this war, had no right demand anything from defeated agressors?
Grow-up.

As for 1939, we didn't conquered Western Ukraine and Western Beylorussia, we re-conquered it. Those lands belonged to Ukraine and Beylorussia and were populated mostly by Ukranians and Beylorussians.

Poland was theoretically on the winning side. Also, it lost lands to USSR and was supposed to get recompensation on German side.

Theoretically, that's the problem. To get more, you had to donatate more. Poland's role in defeat of nazism is nowhere near than Soviet role. To claim Konigsberg from Germany, you at least had to fight for this city/ It's our soldiers who died in battle for this city, not yours. When this city-fortress was full of nazi soldiers where have you been? Were where you glorious Polish armies? Why Soviets had to fight for it and lost thousans of lives of their soldiers? If you needed it so badly, you had to fight for it. You didn't fight for it. You had no right to demand it. Simple as that, case is closed.

Nope, that country is Russia.

Russia has not a single territorial calim towards any of its neighbours.

When it comes to Poland, it was hard after Iww not to have claims towards neighbours, as Poland was divided in between them. It's like saying JKurds are extremly agressive nation, because they have pretensions toward Turkish, Iraqi, Iranian and Syrian territory at one time. It's just dumb. Also, we had very good relations with Latvia and Romania. Unlike USSR.

Poor, innocent Poland, who use every opportunity to grab new land.

Poland was weak and young as well, and it was USSR who started the fighting. The peace treaty was signed, and USSR had no reasons to breake it.

1) There was a civil war in Russia.
2) Poland used this opportunity and invaded Soviets.
3) In 20's and 30's Poland considered as enemy No1 for USSR. And Soviet Union had all reasons to return lands that Poland captured in 1921. And they reuturned those lands in 1939.

Millions of Soviet soldiers died only thanks to Soviet ignorance and idiotism

F*ck you. Thanks to those Russian soldiers who died in this war you are alive now. You wouldn't have been born, had Russians didn't defeat Germans. Whole your glorious army was crashed within month. And you tell me about ignorance and idiotism?
F*cking whining suckers.

Exterminating it partly on its own. Additionally, I would like to remind You Poland never surrendered to Germany, and Polish armies were fighting against Germany both on western and eastern front, also hand to hand with Soviets.

Good, and how many Polish armies participated in battle of Konigsberg to claim it for Poland? How much Werhmacht armies were defeated by Poilsh forces. Remind me a Polish-German battle which was a turning point of WW2. Explain why Poland should benefit from defeat of Germany more than Russia.

Oh, and that your grandpa died fighting near Krolewiec doesn't mean Russia can claim it.

Moron. Had he died during battle of Konigsberg, I wouldn't type there now. He was heavily injured there.

Polish soldiers were dieing fighting in Norway, Italy, Belgium, France, Libya, Ukraine, Byelorus, Germany itself etc, and we do not claim these lands.

Ok, I see now. You seems to believe that mighty Polish army defeated nazism and saved humanity.
Polish contribution to defeat of Hitler's hordes and Polish war effort is NOWHERE NEAR than Soviet contribution and Soviet war effort. There is no a single reason why you should benefit from defeat of Germany more than country which played DECISIVE role in victory over nazism.

It's true, not bs, You ignorant

So, how about my suggestion, that you didn't comment? If you think that Konigsberg should be Polish, because it was (or suppose to be Polish) in 17 century, then Poland should be Russian, because it was part of Russian Empire. You still do not understand that you've posted pure BS?

It was the official propaganda, and the number is about entire USSR, not Russia.

It's accurate number from the historical research done after collapse of SU. USSR lost 26,6 millions of people in this war. If you already read Russian, go there (actually, after such comments, I would send you to another place, but I doubt you'll understand what "poshel na hui" means)
educate yourself:

http://www.soldat.ru/doc/casualties/book/chapter5_02.html

Poland was, especially after the second robbery - by Soviet liberators. I'd like to remind You entire Poland, and only a part of SU, was under occupation.

Had all Russia was under occupation, you would never exist Heresson. You have to pray all you Catholic idols, that Russia exist and always save the world from reign of crazy conquerers who try to capture the planet.

You didn't win it alone. Not USSR alone, not Russia alone. Why the hell Uzbekhistan or Kazakhstan didn't receive something too?

Are you nuts?
Sure you are.
USSR was a single, united country. When the hell you'll understand this?

Really? Poland before the war - 35mln people,
Poland after the war - 25 mln people. 10 mln citizens lost, including over 6mln killed, also by Soviets.

And it would have been 0.0 millions of people, had Soviets didn't destroy nazis and saved you from complete extermination as nation.

You're being silly, Serb

My God, are You a fanatic.

You're being Heresson

My God, you are Pole.

[Serb]

Originally posted by DataAeolus
A bit off but somewhat related.

I have a friend whose father was a child during World War II in Romania.

He told me that Romanians preferred German occupation compared to the Soviet 'liberation.' According to him, aside from their racial ideology Germans were very respectful. While they took things they needed they often make an effort to pay compensation in exchange. One story he told was about how Germans took over a school to use as barracks. When they left, Romanians found the school in a much better condition - it has been repaired and there was even a small flower garden outside.

On the other hand, when Soviets came in and liberated them, they just looted the place and took whatever they wanted without reburisments.

They should have been praying to all their Romanian Gods, that Soviets didn't acted like them in Russia.
F*ckers invaded our country, killed millions of our citizens, burned to the ground thousands of our towns and you expect we should have been nice with agressors?
Had Soviets acted like those f*cking invaders, including Romanian f*cking invaders, Germany and all its satellites who invaded USSR in 1941, wouldn't exist today.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
I thought You'd answer like that, but it's not the right understanding of what I have written. Perhaps it's my mistake, if so, sorry. What I have written was that after the war, Poland was reduced by 10 mln citizens, including over 6mln killed, and of those 6mln some were killed by Soviets.

26.6 millions of Russians died in this war and some of them were killed by Poles, I'm sure.

[Serb]

Originally posted by DataAeolus


Perhaps... but a liberation should be just that, not a looting fest.

Perhaps...you don't get it?
Romania was part of the AXIS. Romanian army invaded Soviet Union in 1941 and comitted atrocities there on pair with Hitler's forces.
About what kind of liberation are you talking about? Soviets fought versus their enemy, Romania was the same enemy as Germany.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Man Serb, I really need to call your insane asylum because internet access to mentally handicaped people is obviously not working in your case.

Stupid f*cker.
I work for internet provider company and it is I who provide access.

Soviet WWII apologist. It is pathetic. *****ing at people for all the injustices done to Russia (manufatured usually, but you are right by mistake sometimes) and then using the same logic you accuse the defilers applied to you for your own actions.

Your defensivness betrays your evil intent

Get out of here, you have no idea about history of Russian-Polish relationship.

P.S. And go get your medication...mr. "60 millions of Soviet citizens killed by their own government".

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Serb


Stupid f*cker.
I work for internet provider company and it is I who provide access.

That was a good one