new capitalism vs communism thread

[Imran Siddiqui]

Also, be aware that focusing on shareholder's prot doesn't mean focusing on company profit as well. It would be best if there was a fathomable way to systematically favor company profit, but it simply isn't the case. In many cases, shareholders have no interest in their company's long term survival, and are only interested in immediate returns. I trust the employees, who spend hours at work each day to be more responsible about their company than ivory tower shareholders.

I don't. Shareholders profit is more akin to company profit. Shareholders are the one who want to see the company make as much money in the long run as possible (seeing as most of them own the company for the long run). They also have better knowledge of what would benefit the company in the long run.

Dealing with workers in my job, I would utterly frightened if they ran businesses. They would be much more 'now' orientated than shareholders

[joncha]

Re: Re: new capitalism vs communism thread

Spiffor

You very much echoes my own ideas. For communism to work, society has to be more democratic, not less. Some more thoughts:

1) Democracy should be from the ground up, not from the top down. People decide democratically how to run their workplaces, communities, schools, etc. and delegate up to the local, city-wide, regional, national (and international!) levels. This kind of democracy is active and participatory, not just voting once every 4 or 5 years for who the next constitutional dictator will be.

2) State ownership is not socialism. If the state is not run directly and democratically by the people, it doesn't matter what it does or calls itself. It just ain't the real deal. You might get lucky and have a nice dictator in charge of things, but that still doesn't make it communist.

3) As Spiffor points out, there's a big difference between personal property and private property. Further to that, some things are better owned by individuals, some things are better owned collectively. For example, individual toothbrushes? Individual lawnmowers?

4) Everyone should be gauranteed the minimum food, shelter, etc. necessary to live. Anything less is criminal.

However, because this is to be a democratic society, it's up to the people living in it to decide its directions. I have a lot of opinions on how I think it should look, but I'm willing to allow the public to make those decisions.

Now... how we get to a point where they actually can, that's another debate. Right now, there are people who benefit from the way society is set up... and many more who don't, but identify with capitalism against their own self interests--that's the whole point of the "American Dream."

jon.

(edited to fix vB code weirdness)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Individual lawnmowers?

What's wrong with owning a lawnmower?

[joncha]

You use your lawnmower, what, once a week? once every two weeks? For an hour tops. And only when the weather is good. Why not have 5-6 (the number is arbitrary) for the neighbourhood, that anyone can sign out (and thus be responsible for) and use for his/her one hour? Makes a heck of a lot more sense to me... but who knows? Maybe you'll out-vote me on the neighbourhood council?

jon.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why not have 5-6 (the number is arbitrary) for the neighbourhood, that anyone can sign out (and thus be responsible for) and use for his/her one hour?

Because I want the good riding kind and what if the other numbnuts want a push mower?

[joncha]

Then make your case for why we need one for our neighbourhood. If you get out-voted, well that's democracy.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why not have 5-6 (the number is arbitrary) for the neighbourhood, that anyone can sign out (and thus be responsible for) and use for his/her one hour?

Because I want the good riding kind and what if the other numbnuts want a push mower?

You'll take what you're given.

Behold, the people's mower - will suffice for the needs of 10 families.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If you get out-voted, well that's democracy.

Which is why democracy sucks and ain't my idea of a good time.

You'll take what you're given.

I'll just come with my goons and lord over you peasants as your King, while you are down in your 'place' . Let the revolution come... I need some fresh corpses for fertilizer

[Agathon]

What's wrong? Don't you like the people's mower? There's a picture of Lenin on the far side, since this is the Leninmower Mk XI.

[Spiffor]

Ag:
We are supposed to make communism attractive


Along the lines of
"you'll get what you're given:"

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Ag:
We are supposed to make communism attractive

Aw.... I was going to save the people's hooker for later.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I was going to save the people's hooker for later.

Go ahead.. you can have your sloppy seconds .

[Agathon]

Hey, I just saw myself on TV. Weird - there was a protest at uni and I walked past it this afternoon. I just saw the news and thought "that looks familiar" and there I am.

It isn't up to my last appearance in which I was interviewed by City TV and managed to insinuate that Bush was a liar, a cheat and a moron in 20 seconds. But still - it's real fame!!!!

I found a clip on the web.

http://www.cbc.ca/clips/mov/roussy_protest0402041.mov

I'm the fat blur in the black trenchcoat to the right about 30 seconds from the end.

So don't diss me or I'll use my fame. Well all half second of it.

Here's the frame:

[JohnT]

Originally posted by joncha
You use your lawnmower, what, once a week? once every two weeks? For an hour tops. And only when the weather is good. Why not have 5-6 (the number is arbitrary) for the neighbourhood, that anyone can sign out (and thus be responsible for) and use for his/her one hour? Makes a heck of a lot more sense to me... but who knows? Maybe you'll out-vote me on the neighbourhood council?

jon.

Didn't we already have this specific discussion before, but with Kidicious and Velociryx?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Kidicious in 5.....4......3.......2.......1


Someone please close this thread.