new capitalism vs communism thread

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by skywalker

Originally posted by Kidicious
No gulag, but if they break the law, and are given due process of law, there should be consequences. That won't change. One goal of the societies institutions should be to get citizens to obey the law and act in a way that is beneficial to society.

That has nothing to do with molding people - a person can hold whatever values they want, so long as they obey the law. Concordance with the law has nothing to do with an individuals freedom to believe what he or she chooses.

Our beliefs are very much determined by the institutions or our society. That has nothing to do with how free we are.

Originally posted by skywalker

I didn't say it was. Individuals shouldn't be allowed to act in a way that detrimental to society. The law says individuals can't sh1t where ever they like, because individuals don't want sh1t everywhere. Individuals should act in a way that is best for all the individuals, not just themselves, or you don't have a civilized society at all.

(emphasis mine)

So the "benefit of society" supersedes individual liberties? If it would be "detrimental" to society for people to protest a war, they shouldn't be allowed to do it? If it would be "detrimental" to society for citizens to believe in a higher being, they shouldn't be allowed to do it?

I didn't say protesting war was detrimental to society. Individuals should have all the liberties which are beneficial to society and which make up a just society.

[Kuciwalker]

What if someone exercises their liberties in a way you view "detrimental" - say, voting against a politician whose policies you think are "right"? Wouldn't voting against him be "detrimental" to society?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by skywalker
No, it's not. Anybody who thinks people should be "molded" into the state's concept of a "model person" is totalitarian in the extreme - it is virtually a declaration that they have no freedom of thought.

Every society molds its people, even a shmooist one.

[Kuciwalker]

But society doesn't "mold" them in the way he's proposing - he's arguing to have the schools indocrtrinate the students into all one mindset. You know what that sounds like? Blind patriotism.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by skywalker
But society doesn't "mold" them in the way he's proposing - he's arguing to have the schools indocrtrinate the students into all one mindset. You know what that sounds like? Blind patriotism.

It sounds like school.

[JohnT]

Whoo-hoo! Post 500! Until next time...

See Ya!

[chequita guevara]

Good riddance.

[Spiffor]

Will Skywalker open a new one? I don't know if I want to take part

(actually, I know I want to )

[Kuciwalker]

I want to get back to the dialogue I had going with you... that's a good debate.

[Spiffor]

Yeah, but I think we've exhausted it quite a bit. I think our cases are pretty clear, only that we could make shmooism and spifforism more detailed.

[Kuciwalker]

Yeah, but where we left off, I was working on asking how you would prevent corporations and such in spifforism, and why

[DaShi]

Is capitalism the new communism?