new capitalism vs communism thread

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by curtsibling
Would you be willing to give up all your posessions and owned goods, to become a destitute worker in a communist regime?

Read the thread, and you'll notice that I certainly don't advocate public ownership of individual goods. The huge majority of commies, myself included, advocate the public ownership of production means, but also that personal property (watch, car, TV, house, etc.) should be left untouched, or mostly untouched.

In short, NO. And that's perfectly consistent with communism. The idea that communism is about communalizing everything is a misconception.

[Spiffor]

Curtsibling:
It may be good for you to read this thread from the beginning. At least, the posts by Azazel and myself.
Your comments in this threads seem to be fueled by a throng of misconceptions, the first one being that commies all advocate a Stalinist system (we have exactly one stalinist in Apolyton, and that's because he's from Siberia and mourning the former glory of his country).

Azazel and myself have presented two different models of what an efficient and humane communist / socialist system could look like (mine was at post #29 IIRC). You may be interested to see that commies aren't all bloodthirsty ideologues, far from it.

[curtsibling]

But communism will never be adopted in any major Western nation, so the argument is moot.

[Kuciwalker]

This is 'Poly.

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
Where did I say that? People have the misconception that agrarian life is romantic, but I know from my own experience that it is not. It is blood and feces.

Wannabe communists in the West think they will not have to do any dirty work, in that production happens magically by itself.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
To spread communist propaganda.

Pity no-one is interested.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
Do you realize the excesses of capitalism and Imperialism. How was the British empire capable of providing each labouer in Britain with sugar lumps to put in their tea. Simple. They took slaves from Africa, and put them to work on the sugar plantations in the Caribean. The english labourer was thus only provided with his small luxuries due to the fact that this was produced by breaking th back of slaves.

Add Europe, Russia and the USA to that list.

So the Russian Soviets in the 1920-30s urged all those Transcaucausians and
central Asians to happily slave till death from the goodness of their hearts?

Cut down on your LSD intake please.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
No, are you?

I can see the evil of communism plain as day.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
They are not poor. they are simply not aware that their wealth is currently being taken away from them. Wealth disparity in Europe is growing as we speak.

So giving the corrupt power to men wearing red stars instead will change things?

Tell me, when people were eating their frozen children in Leningrad in WW2, was Stalin starving to death too?

Ponder this.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
Do you actually believe this propaganda. Stalin was personally responsible for the eradication of reactionary elements within the army and the communist party. The huge loss of life in the Soviet Union prior to the invasion by Nazi Germany and the subsequent even huger loss of life that resulted in, was not done as a willfull act, but was mainly due to poor and erratic planning

So was the mass liquidation of Poles and North Europeans, and then the invasion of Karellia a case of bad planning?

Insane.

Next you'll be telling us the holocaust was a hoax.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
I am not taking it for granted. See above. The good living standards are evaporating.

Common sense with it, seemingly.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
I have shoveled chicken**** at a chicken farm in Canada.

Beware of producing it by verbal means.

Originally posted by Tripledoc
Hitler was not a socialist.

Actually he was.

A nationalist socialist.

Have basic historical facts escaped you?

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by skywalker
This is 'Poly.

I am beginning to realise the infamously silly reputation of the red-squad here is well-deserved!

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by curtsibling
But communism will never be adopted in any major Western nation, so the argument is moot.

This a most basic misconception. You, like Spiffor and Azazel, are under the impression that the path to communism is a politically determined process. It is not.

It is the result overproduction, overcapitializing of industry, and the lack of foreign markets to dump off the goods produced. The latter sparks what is commonly know as Imperialism.

Communism sets in when the imperialists are incapbale of pushing their way into new markets. It is an outcome of historical economic forces.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by curtsibling
But communism will never be adopted in any major Western nation, so the argument is moot.

Is this a reason to remain in your misconceptions, that we commies all want the return of Stalin? That we commies are all young brats looking for something "cool" rather than "rad", that we have no political awareness?

Azazel and I, both commies, have posted the most articulate posts in this thread, closely followed by diehard capitalist skywalker. Maybe, just maybe, that's because we do have put some thought in our political opinions?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by curtsibling
I am beginning to realise the infamously silly reputation of the red-squad here is well-deserved!

Skywalker definitely doesn't belong to the red squad of 'Poly. If you read his posts, you'd notice he is a diehard partisan of capitalism (or rather, of ideal capitalism he called "schmooism" in this thread to avoid the confusion with existing capitalism).

But of course, to know that, you'd need to read the thread rather than spout nonsense.

[curtsibling]

"Do you actually believe this propaganda. Stalin was personally responsible for the eradication of reactionary elements within the army and the communist party. The huge loss of life in the Soviet Union prior to the invasion by Nazi Germany and the subsequent even huger loss of life that resulted in, was not done as a willfull act, but was mainly due to poor and erratic planning"

@Spiffor:

So is there any kind of lucidity behind this quote by one of your comrades?

I am not saying you are unaware, just unrealistic.

[Spiffor]

BTW, Skywalker, shouldn't you be "Emperor of Schmooism" rather than "Emperor of your Mom". That would make many people intrigues I'd bet

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by Spiffor
But of course, to know that, you'd need to read the thread rather than spout nonsense.

I can see that you are becoming abusive, because your political fantasies are not finding welcome.

Well and good.

May I say your ideas are out to lunch.

You can try and sell me communism all you wish.
But the brutish nature of the system only leads to vast piles of dead.

Something you all are unwilling to confront, save to witter some rubbish about bad planning.

I like my way of life, I want for little, and refuse to give all that up for the nightmare you masochists seem to hanker for.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by curtsibling
@Spiffor:

So is there any kind of lucidity behind this quote by one of your comrades?

I am not saying you are unaware, just unrealistic.

I mostly disagree with Tripledoc. I am more often in agreement with Imran (a serious capitalist) than with Tripledoc.

That we both are advocating communism doesn't mean we have the same view of how the system should be (we agree on the basic premise that property of production means should belong to the people rather than to a select few capitalists). And it certainly doesn't mean that we agree on history. I am of Romanian ascent, and I know enough of the crimes of stalinist regimes to never defend their cruelty. It is the reason why I think, in my model posted on fricking post #29, that a communist system needs absolutely to be democratic. Otherwise, it'd better not exist (but then again, everything is at post #29, if you only bother to go back to page 1, there are many questions you won't find useful to ask me)

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by curtsibling
Something you all are unwilling to confront, save to witter some rubbish about bad planning.

You ALL ?!?!
Do you associate me with Tripledoc's delusions? You have no idea of what my opinion on Stalin was, and you are assuming that I agree with Tripledoc on it?

Let's play the same game. Ned is an anticommunist. I'll go for the premise that you and Ned are basically the same, and I'll blame you for any crap Ned will say

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by curtsibling
I like my way of life, I want for little, and refuse to give all that up for the nightmare you masochists seem to hanker for.

I guess this is a reason enough not to bother even reading what we say, then. Of course, since our (Azazel's and mine's) posts would go completely at the opposite of your prejudices, I guess it's better for you to stay clear of them, ain't it?