Religionists - If Your Deity Was Proven To Be Unreal, How Would You React?

[Jaguar]

I would steal lots of money and then create a life-size model of an ancient Viking ship. Then I would raid European cities and burn them down.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
I have another question for religious people.

During the Holocaust there was a case of a group of Jews who led by their Rabbi decided to put God on trial. I think he/she/it was found guilty.

So my question is two fold.
Do you think this is within the faith, to put God on trial?
Would your religious beliefs be challanged if you were put into a concentration camp?

Please read Emile Fackenheim "to mend the world" on the challenge of the holocaust to religious beleif in general and to Jewish belief in particular. and the struggle with a post-holocaust theology. Also read most anything by Elie Wiesel.

I know several concentration camp survivors. They have a wide range of beliefs. Some are very pious - i think theyve all known anger with G-d. anger with G-d is a rather different question than what is being asked here.

[Kuciwalker]

And don't give me the usual jibber-jabber about primitive superstition and the triumph of science. Science is the investigation of natural phenomena. It has little if anything to do with the supernatural. The confusion of religion and science in the past is not an error commited by me in the present, AFAIK. Feel free to accuse others of "creation science" (Maybe you weren't even going to mention that to me, in which case my apologies. I was just trying to head off a rant before it happened).

The word "supernatural" is one of the few one-word oxymorons in the English language. Nothing can exist that is not part of the universe (and hence nature), because the universe is the set of all that exists. If god is "supernatural", he doesn't exist

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by skywalker


Thus, you would have no problem with me claiming that there are undetectable green elves dancing on electrons?

See youre asking about some PARTICULAR set of critters - like asking me if there is an old guy with a beard, who says "gays are evil" and who wants you to sing hymns. Different from struggling with eternity as a principle - what is eternal? is eternity compatible with will??? etc.

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
People 'disproving' faith is nothing new under the sun. Now, if they had legitimate arguments, I would actually have to stop eating my bacon and do some real work.

People thinking that a god is real is nothing new either, but it is getting rather stale.

Do you have a legitimate argument to prove your faith, or are you just restricted to an old book and lame humour?

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Rhetoric just makes me even hungrier for bacon.

If you are trying to present yourself as creditable, you are not doing very well.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi It really is delicious. Do you want some curtsibling?

Watch you don't choke.

No thanks, humble pie is a dish best served to those who are smuggest, eh?

[Tripledoc]

So God is not infallible?

Does it not strip God of his authority if he/she/it is put on trial and found guilty?

This must effectively be the same as saying that God does not exist.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by skywalker

And don't give me the usual jibber-jabber about primitive superstition and the triumph of science. Science is the investigation of natural phenomena. It has little if anything to do with the supernatural. The confusion of religion and science in the past is not an error commited by me in the present, AFAIK. Feel free to accuse others of "creation science" (Maybe you weren't even going to mention that to me, in which case my apologies. I was just trying to head off a rant before it happened).

The word "supernatural" is one of the few one-word oxymorons in the English language. Nothing can exist that is not part of the universe (and hence nature), because the universe is the set of all that exists. If god is "supernatural", he doesn't exist

dont play word games - if i define "nature" as the world that is observable, or the world that is subject to natural law, then nature != to the set of all that exists - at least not by definition.

[Elok]

Well, looking back, I think I argued too aggressively, but at this point it doesn't matter. I'll just end on the note that I am not "the average religionist," though to be fair I did treat you as the "average atheist," albeit in your case it was judging by your conduct contrasted against a stereotype I have generally found to be true...

Okay, I'm going in proviso circles here. Let's leave it be. You've irritated me a bit much for me to revert to peaceful discussion; even if you did start this bickering, I'm still at fault for perpetuating it, and I'm a little too wound up to let it go. Let's resume the discussion when we're both ready to stop throwing insults.

[curtsibling]

@Elok:
I meant no insults, and yes things perhaps got over-heated.

No bad blood is intended...

So in the interests of good poster unity,
I wish to revert to the original question:

"If Your Deity Was Proven To Be Unreal, How Would You React?"

Now, folks, please concentrate on the meaning of the question, not the meanings behind it.

I am not attacking faith, just wanting to know human reactions, that's all.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
So God is not infallible?

Does it not strip God of his authority if he/she/it is put on trial and found guilty?

This must effectively be the same as saying that God does not exist.

who says god has to be infallible??? stop acting like a fundie!!!!


a court holds according to its authority, not for all time

A court of jews putting G-d on trial(and could you provide a link please) , is not making a theological argument, or even claiming to prove god fallible by absolute criteria. They are saying that as far as THEY are concerned, judging as humans but using the principles G-d gave us, they cannot exonerate G-d.


The bible, an old book and yet a new one, says "shall not the judge of the earth do justice???" and also "where were you when I created Heaven and earth"

On the one hand, it IS appropriate for man to apply concepts of justice to G-d, and to do so harshly if necessary. On the other hand, G-d is radically other than man, and cannot be judged in ways appropriate to human beings. This, of course, is a contradiction. In wrestling with the contradiction, you MAY learn something about the eternal.

[Tripledoc]

Ok so God was found guilty, put in jail, and now he is out on parole?

I´ll be watching him closely.

[Shi Huangdi]

"During the Holocaust there was a case of a group of Jews who led by their Rabbi decided to put God on trial. I think he/she/it was found guilty."

I remember another story from the Holocaust. One Jew in a concentration camp saw another Jew offering up prayers of thanks to God. Suprised, he asked him what he could possibly have to be thankful for. He replied he was thankful that he was not like the people opressing him.


But for your question, Tripledoc, no Humans cannot judge God.

[curtsibling]

Can you gentlemen continue this sword fight on another thread?

[monkspider]

What do you guys think about various brands of cream soda? I used to love A and W, the but their formula has been changed to absolute **** in recent years.

[monkspider]

IBC cream soda is good, but over-priced. The best cream soda is Shasta IMO.