Florida courts: "You gay people can't adopt children"

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Molly -

And I'm accused of having no sense of humor? I even attached a smilie to it and you guys still think it was a serious comment?

Oh yes, Berz, of course, your sense of humour.

Right, well could you just make it a wee bit clearer, because your quoted item of ‘medical research’ resembled something out of a Monty Python version of Anita Bryant and Lyndon La Rouche, and yet bizarrely (or perhaps Berzerkly) was lacking a smiley.

Was it really meant to be serious, or was that a joke, and you just omitted the smiley by accident, for it did afford me some amusement, what with its lurid depiction of short lived scatophages roaming through fashionable resorts around the world ?

Originally posted by Berzerker
Sorry, not really interested in your flirtations with cross dressing.

Oh, the transvestism jest! But lacking a smiley.....

Gosh, you really do have a talent for unoriginality.

Well, we’ve covered the whole gamut now, just about- what with child endangerment/paedophilia and rape ‘causing’ homosexuality (I’m confused- if a lesbian is raped does she become heterosexual? And if she’s raped by a woman, does that make her heterosexual again?) both thanks to the lurid imaginings of Park Avenue, then your quite charming leap into 'medical archives' and its adventures in the realms of truncated lives and ‘Merde a Manger’, and now a jolly jape about cross dressing.

I don’t think I’ve seen so much garbage since I last visited the town dump.

[Drake Tungsten]

what with child endangerment/paedophilia and rape causing homosexuality

I thought it was the other way around...

[Berzerker]

Molly -

Oh yes, Berz, of course, your sense of humour.

Right, well could you just make it a wee bit clearer, because your quoted item of ‘medical research’ resembled something out of a Monty Python version of Anita Bryant and Lyndon La Rouche, and yet bizarrely (or perhaps Berzerkly) was lacking a smiley.

I attached a smilie to my comment, didn't that make it clear enough?

Was it really meant to be serious, or was that a joke, and you just omitted the smiley by accident, for it did afford me some amusement, what with its lurid depiction of short lived scatophages roaming through fashionable resorts around the world ?

The article from Williams said nothing about "scatophages". You're referring to Mindseye's post now, not mine.

Oh, the transvestism jest! But lacking a smiley.....

Gosh, you really do have a talent for unoriginality.

The smilie didn't help you the first time, so being a rational person I decided not to waste another one.

Well, we’ve covered the whole gamut now, just about- what with child endangerment/paedophilia and rape ‘causing’ homosexuality (I’m confused- if a lesbian is raped does she become heterosexual? And if she’s raped by a woman, does that make her heterosexual again?) both thanks to the lurid imaginings of Park Avenue, then your quite charming leap into 'medical archives' and its adventures in the realms of truncated lives and ‘Merde a Manger’, and now a jolly jape about cross dressing. I don’t think I’ve seen so much garbage since I last visited the town dump.

Do me a favor and leave me out of your little diatribe about PA.
None of that relates to my position or what I've said.

I guess you won't be answering those 2 questions I asked...

[Daz]

Berz, live with it....

Lets think about the gay theory that they are "born-gay" . That would mean its genetical, and, due to the fact that the genetical line is not continued, would mean homosexuals will inevitably become extinct.

[Berzerker]

Live with what? Your mis-understanding of genetics?

[Daz]

The fact that you cannot fight the gay lobby of Apolyton

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Berzerker

1) Would you rather see a homosexual child adopted by a homosexual couple than by a heterosexual couple?

2) Would you rather see a black child adopted by a black couple than a white couple?

1) I don't know what a "homosexual child" is, assuming "child" means pre-pubescent. Sure, as you say, some gays say they felt "different" before puberty (me, too). I didn't know what that difference was, I just felt I was different in some fundamental way. The difference became apparent with puberty. It is only in retrospect that I know what that "difference" was. You still with me, or should I just head for the wall now?

If there was some way of knowing orientation in advance, I would say that as long as the prospective parents were loving and supportive, I don't think it would make much difference. Loving, supportive parents usually don't care. Mom can give you "guy advice" just as well as a gay Dad can. Oops, I forgot - you think gays are really different from everyone else.

2) Better a willing, supportive white family than an institution. That seems more analogous to the Florida situation.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Berzerker

But I can't say I believed those specific numbers (...)

Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind next time you quote some figures.

(...) I believe homosexuals have a shorter life span and his point remains valid even if the numbers aren't that low.

I see. Even though the claims are obviously bogus and the research thoroughly discredited, "his point remains" - sans evidence - since it fits what you believe about gays. I think you just revealed more about yourself than you intended.

What's truly most disturbing to me is that, in a conversation about the possibility that gays have shorter lifespans, your greatest concern is that ... gays are getting some kind of unfair break on life insurance premiums! That's creepy.

I spent ~12 years growing up in SF and another 10 or so in LA.

That actually makes you sound worse!

You spent 22 years in SF and LA, and no major alarms went off when you read someone claiming that gays have lifespans 20-30 YEARS shorter than straights? You appear willing to swallow anything as long as it fits your disturbing beliefs about gays.

[Guynemer]

hehe... you said "swallow"

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Berzerker

And I'm accused of having no sense of humor? I even attached a smilie to it and you guys still think it was a serious comment?

Imagine you were a black man having a long conversation about civil rights with someone named "Crazed". Suppose "Crazed" trundled out a long parade of ridiculous objections to civil equality, and supported it by quoting the highly sensationalized, utterly discredited research of a famous white supremacist. Imagine that everytime "Crazed" referred to blacks during the conversation, he used the term "negros".

Do you think the you'd be seeing much humor in that?

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Guynemer
hehe... you said "swallow"

Maybe someone can follow it up with "cram it down our throats" ... ?

[mindseye]

Oops, forgot to address your other study...

Originally posted by Berzerker

It's hard finding "unbiased" studies but I did give it a go

From that study:

For each scenario, non-HIV deaths were distributed according to the assumed proportion of the total population (3%, 6% or 9%), but 95% of HIV deaths were distributed to gay and bisexual men as this is the proportion of AIDS cases in gay and bisexual men in this centre.

Maybe in this Canadian urban center 95% of AIDS cases could be attributed to gay or bi men, but this was certainly not the case in the US at that time (at least not according to the CDC), nor for the rest of the world.

That means any mortality estimates from this study would only be relevant to this city (or places which shared its unusual profile).

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

what with child endangerment/paedophilia and rape causing homosexuality

I thought it was the other way around...

Homosexuality causes rape?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or did you miss Park Avenue's woeful attempt at explaining the formation of sexuality, when he recounted how he 'knew' someone who was raped and 'turned' gay?

Oh Berserker- no smiley attached to the 'rational person' remark- so not a jolly jape then?

[Berzerker]

The fact that you cannot fight the gay lobby of Apolyton

But you can out think them...

Mindseye -

1) I don't know what a "homosexual child" is, assuming "child" means pre-pubescent. Sure, as you say, some gays say they felt "different" before puberty (me, too). I didn't know what that difference was, I just felt I was different in some fundamental way. The difference became apparent with puberty. It is only in retrospect that I know what that "difference" was. You still with me, or should I just head for the wall now?

Since you've just echoed what I said, I'd say you've been spending too much time at that wall. Are you saying homosexuality is not acquired until puberty? Obviously when I refer to a homosexual or heterosexual child I'm talking about the orientation they will exhibit when old enough, not the sexual practices of 6-8 year olds.

If there was some way of knowing orientation in advance, I would say that as long as the prospective parents were loving and supportive, I don't think it would make much difference. Loving, supportive parents usually don't care. Mom can give you "guy advice" just as well as a gay Dad can. Oops, I forgot - you think gays are really different from everyone else.

You just acknowledged you were "different" so whats wrong with my characterisation? And you're still missing the point, it's not about the parent's ability, my questions and arguments are based on equally qualified couples, it's about how the children fit into their new environment, their views of life. So you don't think it matters if a homosexual child is adopted by heterosexuals or homosexuals? The fact that child shares an additional bond to the homosexual couple is irrelevant in your mind? Explain that to Imran and Boris, because they agree that it would be better for that child to be adopted by a homosexual couple.

2) Better a willing, supportive white family than an institution. That seems more analogous to the Florida situation.

You dodged my question, I wasn't asking if it would better for a black child to remain in an institution.

Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind next time you quote some figures.

I was quoting an article and the point being made by the author, the numbers are irrelevant as long as the actual numbers make the same point.

I see. Even though the claims are obviously bogus and the research thoroughly discredited, "his point remains" - sans evidence - since it fits what you believe about gays. I think you just revealed more about yourself than you intended.

Are you suggesting homosexuals have a greater or equal life expectancy to heterosexuals? If not, what is your problem?

What's truly most disturbing to me is that, in a conversation about the possibility that gays have shorter lifespans, your greatest concern is that ... gays are getting some kind of unfair break on life insurance premiums! That's creepy.

Then you don't "see", the article and the point being made was the power of the homosexual/liberal lobby - a power that can or will be used to alter the actions of adoption agencies and that involves children.

That actually makes you sound worse!

Why? Because I've seen the homosexual community and the pressure it puts on people? My friend's dad was a cop in SF and during one of those homosexual riots he was struck in the arm by a brick, a very serious wound (attempted murder). And the "gay" lobby in that city was so strong the cops were told to let them riot and inflict wounds on the cops. They weren't even allowed to defend themselves, they had to stand their and take the abuse; so yes, I'm quite familiar with "homosexual politics".

You spent 22 years in SF and LA, and no major alarms went off when you read someone claiming that gays have lifespans 20-30 YEARS shorter than straights? You appear willing to swallow anything as long as it fits your disturbing beliefs about gays.

I'll leave the swallowing to you, but I figured that number would be out of whack if not for AIDS. The second study I cited posited 8-20 years so the first set of numbers are not that far off.

Imagine you were a black man having a long conversation about civil rights with someone named "Crazed". Suppose "Crazed" trundled out a long parade of ridiculous objections to civil equality, and supported it by quoting the highly sensationalized, utterly discredited research of a famous white supremacist. Imagine that everytime "Crazed" referred to blacks during the conversation, he used the term "negros".

Do you think the you'd be seeing much humor in that?

First, you don't even know what we were discussing. Molly complained about my joke about little johnny dressing up in mommy's clothes as an indicator of pre-pubescent orientation. It was not about Paul Cameron. Second, if you had read the article I linked, you would have seen that Cameron's name is not mentioned nor were the other claims about "scat" or rape etc, Williams cited only the numbers. Third, we don't have a civil right to adopt, this is about children, not homosexuals and their desire to parent. And fourth, other than the numbers quoted from William's article (which you apparently consider a civil rights violation ), what analogously racist policies have I advocated?

Do you think the you'd be seeing much humor in that?

Saturday Night Live did, they ran a skit about the stereotypical indicators of pre-pubescent homosexual children and how their heterosexual parents need "Homocil" to ease their anxiety.

Maybe in this Canadian urban center 95% of AIDS cases could be attributed to gay or bi men, but this was certainly not the case in the US at that time (at least not according to the CDC), nor for the rest of the world.

That means any mortality estimates from this study would only be relevant to this city (or places which shared its unusual profile).

Of course, AIDS worldwide has hit heterosexuals much more (there's more of them too), but a large Canadian urban center has more in common with large US urban centers and that has more relevance to this debate than Africa. So, what would happen if insurance companies started giving discounts to heterosexuals wherever they found a lower life expectancy for homosexuals? That was Williams' point...

Btw, where is this data from the CDC?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Berzerker

Why? Because I've seen the homosexual community and the pressure it puts on people? My friend's dad was a cop in SF and during one of those homosexual riots he was struck in the arm by a brick, a very serious wound (attempted murder). And the "gay" lobby in that city was so strong the cops were told to let them riot and inflict wounds on the cops. They weren't even allowed to defend themselves, they had to stand their and take the abuse; so yes, I'm quite familiar with "homosexual politics".

Ah, yes, it was probably a lesbian brick, thrown by a gay man.

Is a homosexual riot different from a heterosexual riot?

Was it a black gay riot, or a white gay riot, or kind of mixed?

This gay 'lobby' in San Francisco- could it possibly have been made up of gay and lesbian residents and voters in San Francisco?

Apparently the editor of 'Weekly World News' has died- I sense a job opening for you.