Florida courts: "You gay people can't adopt children"

[Berzerker]

Well lookie there, Mindseye found the right thread, too bad the truth is proving more elusive for you.

I can't think of any other incident which could qualify as a "homosexual riot" which was violent enough to include brick throwing, and where the police were ordered to stand by. The White Night Riots were the only one I could think of which fits that criteria.

You just acknowledged you didn't even live in SF until 4 years after that riot, so now I'm supposed to care that you never heard of a riot you weren't even around for?

I even checked the official site for the SFPD. In their history section, there was only one other riot mentioned for the 1960s and 70s, and that took place in Hunters Point (a predominantly black neighborhood) over the police shooting of a teenage car theft suspect. The next earliest riot mentioned was in 1945.

Link? And one I can use this time.

Given that none of us knows what "riot" you are talking about, if you expect us to take that as anything but fiction I think you should at least be able to tell us the year, if not the location and cause. If you cannot even do that, I don't think you can complain if anyone "calls BS" on that.

I don't care what you want to take as fiction or not. Being told what happened when I lived there by people who didn't live there is

Well, I lived there, too, for a lot longer than you did, and I also don't know who you are talking about.

Not during that time. Kind of relevant, huh?

In San Francisco, politicians who "represent parts of the city" are called "supervisors". And Harvey Milk was the first gay supervisor. If you say there were earlier gay politicians representing gay parts of the city, can you back that up by naming one?

Nope, I don't keep a history journal of homosexual politicians from SF.

I really did think Milk was the first. I believe most of the rest of the world, "homosexual" and otherwise, shared this apparently mistaken notion.

There are lower level politicians than supervisors. You don't think Moscone didn't have any homosexual appointees or aides? You don't think the people of Castro Street (or Polk) ever had a homosexual representing their views? Sheesh!

Please clue us in! Maybe you can name one of these politicians when you identify that mysterious "homosexual riot"?

I told you, it happened when I was in H.S. 75-77. You don't even provide me with valid links and complain because I can't remember the names of homosexual politicians?

You typed "g-a-y"? That had to hurt. Don't worry, I promise not to tell your friends at the Traditional Family Values Coalition.

Yeah, I puked all over the keyboard.

But hey, I'll give you the exact URL when you supply the name of that "homosexual riot" (I want to fill an apparent gap in my knowledge of SF gay history), and the name of one of those gay supervisors who preceeded Milk.

Since when do riots have names? Are they like hurricanes? I'll simply do what you and Molly have done, you can't provide a link to those stats - that must mean your claim is BS. That was easy...

Anwyay, here are some figures from the CDC that are a little more relevant than the ones you provided (which attributed 95% of AIDS cases to gays and bis).

Proportions of AIDS Cases among Adults and Adolescents by Exposure Category and Year of Diagnosis
Trends: 1985 - 2001, United States
US Center for Disease Control

1985 / 2001
65% / 40% - MSM (men who have sex with men)
20% / 26% - injection drug use
3% / 28% - heterosexual contact
9% / 4% - MSM + drug use

From this data you can see that, in the US heterosexual AIDS cases outnumber gay AIDS cases by a significant margin. Actually, the gap is even greater than the figures imply because not all "MSM" contact is "homosexual".

No link again? Did you already forget what we were debating? It was the life expectancy of homosexuals, not AIDS cases. The Canadian study made a claim about the life expectancy of homosexuals, numbers that approach and meet Cameron's numbers. There are a variety of behaviors homosexuals engage in that shorten life spans, not just AIDS. I'm sure you can inform us about that.

The numbers from Canada included bi-sexual men, yours don't. Your numbers from 1985 shows %74 for homosexuals (bi-sexuals not included), how did you figure that was half of %95? Btw, the Canadian study dealt with percentages, not overall numbers so don't mix apples and oranges by throwing in overall numbers. Insurance companies deal with percentages... And if we are going to try and make valid comparisons, you'll have to come up with percentages for large US cities. Those stats obviously increase the percentage when large US cities are compiled, so we'd certainly expect to see insurance companies charge higher premiums for homosexuals in large US cities if there was no homosexual/liberal lobby pressuring them.

While it's true that gays are a much smaller part of the population, and have been hit disproportionately harder, you can see from the trends which way the wind is blowing. If these trends continue, you and Mr. Williams will at some point not need to concern yourselves anymore about "homosexuals" getting that life insurance premuim break. At that point, presumabley the "heterosexual lobby" will have to take over pressuring insurance companies.

Why haven't insurance companies been charging homosexuals higher premiums all along? They do if they find out we smoke or use illegal drugs.

Maybe you should email Mr. Williams with this data. While you are at it, you really ought to clue him in about Paul Cameron before Williams makes a fool of himself again by quoting that rubbish in print. Just don’t be too surprised if Williams doesn’t care.

I think he has more integrity than you, so why don't you email him.

[Berzerker]

Berzerker, before I respond to any of your other malarkey, I want you to answer two questions:

(1) All other qualifications (i.e. race, etc.) being equal, which do you think would be better for a child, being raised by a single heterosexual parent, or being raised by a gay couple?

Are we still talking about adoption? Depends on the sexual orientation of the child.

(2) Which do you think would be better for a child, being raised in an institution, or being raised by a gay couple?

Homosexual couple. Didn't I already say that several times?

Why? Because I want to maximise bonds between the child and the prospective parent(s), not ignore their relevance.

[Berzerker]

http://www.sfgov.org/site/police_index.asp?id=20204

Was that the link you got your riots from? C'mon, that's a general history with only the most important events, not a comprehensive police blotter. I lived thru that period and there were a number of riots.

For example, there was a major incident when I was in high school instigated by many high schoolers who went on a rampage boarding buses beating up people and vandalising property. That doesn't appear at that link, it's just glossed over as "civil unrest during the 70's".