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That we live in a somewhat acausal, non-deterministic universe is proved by the fact it is here at all?
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Dr Strangelove
"You've got a lot of work left ahead of you if you're going to develop these ideas"
Yes, I agree. It's funny how our minds can be so sure of an idea, and others are not.www.my-piano.blogspotComment
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Huh?Originally posted by Park Avenue
That we live in a somewhat acausal, non-deterministic universe is proved by the fact it is here at all?Comment
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That isn't what he was meaning. By 'probabalistic' PA was maening that events happen with determined probabilities (like quantum mechanics), whereas 'deterministic' is a fixed outcome for a fixed set of initial conditions. Both of these are simply obeying physical rules, and bot of these systems preclude free-will.Originally posted by skywalker
There isn't anything BUT probabilistic and deterministic. Either the universe obeys rules, or it doesn't. It can't both not obey rules AND not not obey rules.
Physics has already shown (to very good certainty) that the universe is not deterministic and that the rules governing the universe appear probabilistic. But since we haven't looked at everything, there is no need to assume that everything obeys physical rules.Comment
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Just because quantum mechanics is probabalistic does not mean that it is acausal. Furthermore the reactions that govern the function of the brain occur at the molecular level and therefore quantum mechanics doesn't apply."I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!Comment
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Exactly!Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Just because quantum mechanics is probabalistic does not mean that it is acausal.
Quatum machanics does still apply. QM (or rather Quantum Field Theory, which is QM's generalisation) applies at all energy scales, even macroscopic ones. In principle one should be able to use QM to describe the dynamics of everyday objects - it is just that the maths of the problem would be horrendously difficult - but it is possible in principle.Furthermore the reactions that govern the function of the brain occur at the molecular level and therefore quantum mechanics doesn't apply.
We don't have a quantum theory of gravity yet (that works) but once we do, it should be able to [in principle] predict the motions of stars and planets etc, even though these are in the Newtonian regime.
So if the fundamental laws are deterministic then everything is deterministic.Comment
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Dr Strangelove
Hmm, care to explain?Just because quantum mechanics is probabalistic does not mean that it is acausal.
Skywalker
The universe can't be completely causal, as that would surely mean it wouldn't be here. If you track back, something has to have happened without a cause.Huh?www.my-piano.blogspotComment
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Yes, but the *something* can be outside. Therefore, the universe based on the fundamental laws would be completely causal, that is it would be a machine the production of which is described in the fundamentals laws. According to this, life is a very minor effect of the fundamental laws, so small that it was not taken into consideration when the machine was designed. As a result, life would not be tied by causality, but the free will, although existing, would have not effect on the outcome.Originally posted by Park Avenue
The universe can't be completely causal, as that would surely mean it wouldn't be here. If you track back, something has to have happened without a cause.Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
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this is starting to sound like the matrix reloaded
"I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
- BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories ForumComment
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I won't be scared until it starts sounding like the matrix revolutions. My life has enough forced overemoting and tepid, gratuitous confrontation as it is. It is, however, sadly lacking in cool car chases.Originally posted by Kramerman
this is starting to sound like the matrix reloaded
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By definition, nothing lies outside the universe, right..?Yes, but the *something* can be outside.www.my-piano.blogspotComment
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Deus Ex Machina?"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!Comment
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Huh?www.my-piano.blogspotComment
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If there are no rules, the universe is STILL probabilistic - just everything has an equal chance of happening.Originally posted by Rogan Josh
That isn't what he was meaning. By 'probabalistic' PA was maening that events happen with determined probabilities (like quantum mechanics), whereas 'deterministic' is a fixed outcome for a fixed set of initial conditions. Both of these are simply obeying physical rules, and bot of these systems preclude free-will.
Physics has already shown (to very good certainty) that the universe is not deterministic and that the rules governing the universe appear probabilistic. But since we haven't looked at everything, there is no need to assume that everything obeys physical rules.
Actually, come to think of it, the universe is probabilistic no matter what - "deterministic" is just a subset where all of the probabilities are either 0 or 1.Comment
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The universe can't be completely causal, as that would surely mean it wouldn't be here. If you track back, something has to have happened without a cause.
Or the universe could have existed forever...Comment
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