Anti-intellectualism

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
The fact is "intellectuals" tend to be stuck talking about IQ and their little theories, rather than looking at what works in practice. Ideologies and intellect can only figure so much - and only then when they themselves affect practice.

I agree with regards to ideologies. But IQs measure certain forms of logic, such as spacial awareness, numberical and verbal ability, logic in statements, etc. IMHO that's a good test of intelligence, but that's my opinion.

I have a high IQ, but I would not consider myself someone preoccupied by ideologies, at least not ones that do not directly relate to the real world.

With regards to the anti-intellectualism, I know that it is rife among schools, whereby people will even fail exams in order to fit in with others. Teachers know of the problem, but it is hard to get away from. However this is usually confined to those that are introverts. Outgoing people seem to have less problems.

In later life I think it is apparent. As Provost suggests in his thread about the North, some places do not like people because they are educated to a higher degree, or because they have done better. It's a very British (so it seems) form of reverse snobbery, and jealousy. Having said that, I do not suffer from it, at least no more than I gain from it. On discovering I got a place at Oxford, my boss said "this must be a piece of cake for you" and has left me alone to do it my way, safe in the knowledge that I will come through with the goods in the end. Old friends, whether they are at uni or are working come up and talk to me and seem to respect my opinions because of what I achieved at school, and the way they perceive my intelligence. People I meet through friends are congratulatory about achievements and the like. I never got too much reverse snobbery at school because I did athletics and rugby for the school, and there was team mentality that meant you weren't seen as a geek. I don't see much reverse snobbery relating to me, more the other way round, but I have seen it many times. It is abig problem in the UK, where people can be looked down upon because they went to a good university, etc. It seems to be a mostly British problem, and it is serious, in that it holds back a lot of achievement here, such as when high-minded ideas are not given proper funding, because "it's just a bunch of academics, they know nothing of the real world" sort of mentality that is rife here. However personally I don't have much of a problem with it, but I'm lucky, in that most of the people I meet or speak to do not feel such a need to pull down those that do well, because of jealousy.

[Whaleboy]

Indeed Drogue, I'm rather inept with people when dealing with them, since on the personal level few people know me that well, I would imagine that others will latch onto impressions and hear say and attack that. I know you to be more outgoing and are lucky in avoiding that problem.

[Ramo]

In my experience, a lot of people who are victims of anti-intellectualism are actually being victimized because they're so unbearably arrogant.

Exactly. People who call themselves "intellectuals" are usually pretentious twits who consider themselves superior to the ignorant rabble.

You use your intellect for recreation or career, ergo, you are an intellectual.

Who doesn't use their intellect for recreation or career?

[Drogue]

Yes. I can understand why someone would see you as arrogant, because you try to accurately state your ability at things. Thus sometimes you go too high, sometimes too low. Generally, society seems to want people to dumb down, and pretend their less able than they are, or rather, not to state how able they are. Once someone gets to know you they realise it's not arrogance, at least, not a bad form. It's honesty.

I however, while arguing against dumbing down, will never try to state that I am as able at something as I think I am. I feel uncomfortable talking about my achievements, and would rather play them down. Sometimes it is necessary, but I always feel very embarresed when I have to say. Which is why only those very close to me know things like my IQ.

[Whaleboy]

Who doesn't use their intellect for recreation or career

Use that term with care. Take it to mean, at least in the familial sense, anyone who works in an educational field.

Well put Drogue.

[Ramo]

What's an "educational field" exactly? And you mentioned recreation as well.

[Whaleboy]

What's an "educational field" exactly? And you mentioned recreation as well.

Well one can be an academic and get paid for doing such a thing, or one can do it in ones own time, for example, first time writers.

Education field? Well use your common sense really. Something of academic study, literature, philosophy, politics, law, art, sociology, psychology, classics, media, languages, the list goes on and on...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Incidentally, the situation you describe is an example of anti-intellectualism.

Sorry you're wrong.

I don't know you, so I'm probably not qualified to say the following, but....


I think people are turned off more from your personality than your "intellect." I know that's a hard thing to admit, its far easier to blame why you are unpopular on a vague notion of anti-whatever discrimination, that way you are not personally accountable for the impression you leave on others. And, frankly, its just a fact of life that not everybody you meet will like you, for whatever reason (hygiene, the way you laugh, annoying habits, etc) so why seek out an uber-reason that people don't like you? Some grand conspiracy. If I were Jewish, and someone didn't like me, would I automatically assume that the person was anti-semitic? I will admit, however, that I acted similarly when I was your age, 18 from your profile, the world rotating around my navel, etc. etc. Its something that you grow out of. Hopefully you will have as rewarding an adventure out of adolescence as I have.


(note, I do agree that anti-intellecualism does exist, however, I think that as much of the "problem" lies with the intellectual as the anti-intellectual, for many of the reasons listed by other posters above.)

[monkspider]

Ironically, the posters who are carrying on the most about "anti-intellectualism" are some of the last posters Apolyton would particularly think of as intellectuals.

[Standup]

I think what annoys me about intellectualism is the need to dress it up with concepts and ideas and show off. In particular books. One forum i was involved in had a big debate about how valid someone's contribution was if all they said was "its good, i enjoyed it" or similar. It was generally the 'intellectuals' who criticised them becuase they'd either missed the reference to Lithuanian folklore or whatever so how could they possibly understand and therefore have enjoyed the book. To me if someone enjoys a poem/book etc then thats good enough. Its like reviews in the paper that don't actually tell you anything much about the novel but exist only for the author to show how much time he's spent in academia rather than the real world.

But as someone said i don't think you're (whaleboy) picked on because you're an intellectual but because noone likes a show off (which i guess is how many people would view you). And i'm not being personal but every class i've ever been in the person who answers questions/ ask questions is always hated. All most people do is what to keep their head down and get it over with.

[Provost Harrison]

See, I have a strong personality to boot and one that tends to generate opinions. Some people seem to take a very instant dislike to me without actually having said or done anything to them. They exist in my present place of work but amongst a particular group who look daggers at me, but the majority of people think they are ****ers and they have no influence over me. So they are complete nonentities to me. However at Novartis this took a very different form with me being completely excluded because some people took a very quick and visible dislike to me. It was even commented by my boss that 'it wasn't my fault' yet they still dismissed me. So there are only so many places to attribute the blame. I was nothing but polite and pleasant, but I was efficient, effective, conscientious and did a damn good job of what I did. I am not going to retract my brain and my education just because it may offend those who are insecure. I got declined for the last job I went for because I was deemed too 'confident and outgoing' despite the fact I was the most experienced for the position by a mile...you really have to wonder...

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Standup
But as someone said i don't think you're (whaleboy) picked on because you're an intellectual but because noone likes a show off (which i guess is how many people would view you). And i'm not being personal but every class i've ever been in the person who answers questions/ ask questions is always hated. All most people do is what to keep their head down and get it over with.

You may be right about Whaleboy, but the last part illustrates the point perfectly. People hate the person who answers questions. That is anti-intellectualism. IMHO it's more worrying when they dislike/hate/bully/tease someone because they do well, or get good grades, but if the teacher asks a question, and there is a stigma attached to answering, that is forcing people to be seem less intellectual. Hardly helping to support learning and achievement.

[Ned]

Whaleboy, if you could, please define the differences between intellectual, nerd and arrogant snob.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I am not going to retract my brain and my education just because it may offend those who are insecure.

I would do. I feel uncomfortable in expressing my ability. However I think it's a very bad thing that people feel that have to to be accepted.

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I got declined for the last job I went for because I was deemed too 'confident and outgoing' despite the fact I was the most experienced for the position by a mile...you really have to wonder...

Such a shame when our country has such a problem with reverse snobbery that people get fired for doing too good a job

[reds4ever]

Don't bite my head off lads, but in apportioning the blame, maybe youre confusing 'intellectualism' for 'poor people skills' or varying combinations of the two? Just a thought, I'm back off to play Dominoes on Yahoo! ;O)