Anti-intellectualism

[GePap]

Originally posted by loinburger

If everybody were so hellbent on forcing others to conform, then why do they go around celebrating athletes and actors rather than trying to force them to conform as well?

Because the dominant value system, that which attempts to enforce confirmity, values atheticism and thus great athletes are held as models of success.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by loinburger

Depends, really. I've been in a lot of classes where I (and the rest of the class) have hated the guy (or girl) who answers all of the questions or asks all of the questions (and he/she has received flak for doing so), yet I've also been in a lot of classes where I've been the guy who answers all of the questions or asks all of the questions yet I've never received any flak for it. It's really just a matter of how much courtesy the know-is-all is showing the rest of the class, IMO -- the folks who answer all of the questions whom I've given flak are the kind of people who immediately shout out the answer, or (in extreme cases) interrupt other people who are trying to answer the question. They're not getting flak because the class is full of anti-intellectuals, they're getting flak because they're honyocks.

Good point. I'm a fairly intelligent person with fair people skills. When I was in high school I took some history classes, and as I was interested in history I usually knew the answer to most of the questions. Once I figured this out, I would only raise my hand when no one else did. This allowed everyone else their opportunity to contribute to the class rather than it being a dialogue between me and the instructor. Another bonus for me was that I was known for being good at sports and a tough fighter. The sports thing made me popular with some of the guys who also enjoyed playing sports, as we enjoyed the comraderie of working together on teams or the thrill of opposing one another honorably on the field of battle. Being tough kept the bullies who were looking for an easy mark off of my back. Between these various factors I managed to avoid being harrassed by my classmates, something that some of my friends who were more narrowly tailored suffered from.

[TCO]

yeah...but you never came up to breck to drink beers with me. Dork.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

You were a devoted fan of The Cure!

That, or a budding transvestite.

So he was all the way to estrogen? I think that takes him into transexual territory.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by loinburger
If everybody were so hellbent on forcing others to conform, then why do they go around celebrating athletes and actors rather than trying to force them to conform as well?

I would say that is caused by two conflicting mentalities, given that peer pressure is alive and kicking (and acute in certain places as well).

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Agathon
Isn't the answer to this question that people are quite prepared to defer to expertise in the sciences, medical arts and so forth; but almost everyone either thinks he is an expert when it comes to philosophy, politics, ethics and the good life or wants to deny that these things can be the subjects of expertise (usually by means of some facile relativism).

Well, that's your opinion bub!

[Sikander]

Whaleboy,

Why do people pick on the stupid or retarded? It certainly isn't anti-intellectualism. Notice that good athletes are rarely the object of scorn on that account, but poor athletes often are. People who are into "wierd" things like Goth makeup or whatever are also more likely to be abused, imo because they are not well-integrated into their larger social group, and thus politically weak. Notice the trend here, people get picked on because they are perceived to be weak. Notice that other brainiacs seem to have managed to get through life without abuse because they were athletic, or had good people skills (which translates into political power). While there may indeed be an anti-inellectual undercurrent in your country, bullying usually has little to do with ideas and a lot to do with who is perceived to be weak.

[Flip McWho]

Interesting thread. Good read.

Whaleboy; Enigma your hmmm style of "saying" things (I use " because you don't really say on the net do you) on the the net comes across as slightly arrogant. I understand why it does though and don't think you are arrogant. In fact I've gained more respect for Enigma from reading this thread. Not that he would care, I don't expect him to.

Hmmm it comes across arrogant because you guys no want you want to say and aren't scared to say it. It's hard to explain. I've been accused of the same as you people, though I wouldn't class myself as arrogant. Keep up the good thread.

- Flip's vague contribution (just so he can now get notified when this thread carries on)

[Whaleboy]

Really? What do you do? And you agree with my point, no?

I'm a novelist and people now pay me to write lesbian erotica. Up on my site before the end of Feb hopefully. Yes I do agree, I have a tendency to be verbose, but not to the point of unreadability or irrelevance I hope. You seem to have understood what I've been saying.

They are for Whaleboy! You are cool enough that you don't need them.

Go for it!

Why do people pick on the stupid or retarded? It certainly isn't anti-intellectualism. Notice that good athletes are rarely the object of scorn on that account, but poor athletes often are.

A good point, but one assumes competence. People pick on those who are different in schools, and unfortunately, intellectual means different. You can lump that with the retarded or the losing athletes etc.
Anti-intellectualism is merely symptomatic of a simplistic instinct to attack what we do not understand, be that the intellectual himself or what he is saying.

Whaleboy; Enigma your hmmm style of "saying" things (I use " because you don't really say on the net do you) on the the net comes across as slightly arrogant. I understand why it does though and don't think you are arrogant. In fact I've gained more respect for Enigma from reading this thread.

Indeed, as have I. I do not think I am arrogant, I don't antagonise my friends and I cant think how one can draw that conclusion from this thread, and make anything more than a speculative, at best circumstantial conclusion that I am so.

Hmmm it comes across arrogant because you guys no want you want to say and aren't scared to say it. It's hard to explain. I've been accused of the same as you people, though I wouldn't class myself as arrogant. Keep up the good thread.

Thankyou, it seems that way to me too.

I must say that these cries of arrogance takes the form of this.

Whaleboy highlights an issue, referring to incidents in his own life.

People say "well you may be correct, but its six of one, half a dozen of the other, and the intellectual may be arrogant"

Whaleboy says "fair enough", but people seem to have a predisposition to attack the intellectual (later says people attack what they don't understand, though he would postulate that intellectuals should be respected for going against the grain, that being his personal opinion).

People say that Whaleboy is arrogant and that is the cause of these incidents (his accusers are mostly those who appear to be anti-intellectuals themselves).

Whaleboy denies this

People continue to insist, even though they are flying in the face of what Whaleboy has been saying about HIS OWN LIFE.

Whaleboy continues to deny, and purport his position.

People go on about him being arrogant, starting to include quotes of his that appear to demonstrate that.

Flip highlighted the situation perfectly. I am forceful in what I say, and confident in saying. I do know what I am saying and rest assured that I think about it. This gives me confidence. That does not mean arrogance. I feel able and strong enough to present and defend my views, critically and reasonably. I don't consider myself of superior intelligence but I am being honest when I say that I am reasonably well read and people do tell me that have a philosophical mind. I know my own capabilities. If you think that is arrogance, which is termed as a sense of smug superiority (which I have implicitly denied) then so be it, you only harm your own credibility in making such an outlandish and frankly ad hoc ad hominem.

[Dis]

anti-intellectualism doesn't exist.

It is either paranoid thoughts, or just some fantasy of intellectuals that they should be treated like gods because they are smart.

Deal with it. I have .

[Flip McWho]

Yes, confidence can be mistaken for arrogance alot of the time.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I'm a novelist and people now pay me to write lesbian erotica. Up on my site before the end of Feb hopefully. Yes I do agree, I have a tendency to be verbose, but not to the point of unreadability or irrelevance I hope.

I shall remain silent on this issue

Actually...
/me points to sig
Couldn't resist it

[Urban Ranger]

Ben and Rich,

Do you consciously or subconsciously dislike dealing with people whom you consider stupid?

[Kramerman]

hey! us stupider people get victimized all the time. Us jocks and super models do too .... when will we learn to love the beautiful people?

[TCO]

1. Read The Gift of Gab inside Dink Stover inside The Lawrenceville Stories.

2. Then read Children of the Atom. (And think about both of them. Don't assume you are so whipcord smart that you know everything. Sit there like Fred with his apple for a little while.)

3. Oh...and "lesbian erotica"? "novelist"? Not good enough of to justify prolix prose or calling yourself a professional.