Bush to announced manned mission to Mars and permanent base on moon

[Ramo]

This has got to be a joke.

In other news, Bush has decided to put poor people in labor camps to cover the budget deficit...

[PLATO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Polymer ships? Polymers are usually made with carbon (IIRC). Silicon makes glass and semiconductors, not much else.

Spaceships use a lot of metal.

Plus where does the fuel come from? The moon has no water.

And if you're going to build stuff off earth then why waste the delta-v to put it on the moon instead of a nice high orbit?

I seem to remember something found on the moon that could be used for polymer construction. I will try to find some kind of link. Until then I defer to you as I am aware that most polymers are in fact carbon chains.

I was also under the impression that there was ice found on the moon.

wasting delta-v for a moon push is relatively negligble compared to a high Earth orbit but still a waste. The scenario of a moon base should include some type of cost effective production(or at the very least production that can be made cost effective in a reasonable amount of time)

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
And moon is notoriously lacking in heavier elements (i.e. all the metals).

What shall we do with silicon dioxide
What shall we do with silicon dioxide
What shall we do with silicon dioxide
And no iron?

Go look up "iron" and "basalt", and come back, okay?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Big Crunch


Point being that its not keeping things up that's the costly bit.

Sorry. I misunderstood your point.

[TCO]

Part of the problem is that we are not building the right kind of expertise in operating in space. The blather about "its impossible to do a repair in space" from NASA after Columbia (without having even looked at it) is indicative of the problem. The spam in a can and look good for the kiddies PR crap is part of the problem. We need to learn how to operate. Just how submariners and aviators did.

[Lorizael]

deleted. Just realized the point I made was irrelevant.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ramo

This has got to be a joke.

In other news, Bush has decided to put poor people in labor camps to cover the budget deficit...

Don't you ever tire of being so negative?

[Ramo]

Not when the gov't is concerned.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk


Go look up "iron" and "basalt", and come back, okay?

AFAIK lunar surface is extrememly light rock. Significant and usable quantities of metals aren't to be found anywhere near surface (at least this has always been my impression).

Do you have any sources to back up your claims? I did a quick google search and could not find anything useful.

[The Mad Monk]

http://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/cirr/em/8/4.cfm

[The Mad Monk]

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/space98pdf/materials.pdf

[PLATO]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
http://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.go...irr/em/8/4.cfm

GREAT LINK!!!

It is estimated that transporting material from the Earth to the moon would cost $25,000 per pound! Therefore it is imperative that we use resources already on the moon to offset the cost. Of all the resources available, the lunar regolith is the most accessible and most easily converted into construction materials. Lunar regolith contains oxygen, silicon, magnesium, iron, calcium, aluminum and titanium.

[KrazyHorse]

Has a lot of stuff on how much aluminum there is, but very little mention of actual concentration of iron.

Gives percentage of free iron in lunar basalt as 0.5% (very low, IIUC), does not mention percentage of chemically-bound iron.

You can't build spaceships out of aluminum...

[The Mad Monk]

The second one is a paper.

[KrazyHorse]

Read the second one (well, scanned it)

No mention of actual concentrations.

Very dubious of mining lunar basalt for metals other than aluminum.

I think those NASA pages are overly optimistic.