I got a question.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Do you honestly think that the hordes of Southern frat boys and sorority girls display the flag because they are racist or sorry the South lost? Of course not, it is just a regional thing, especially since ignorant northerns and hippies hate it, and they KNOW IT.

Then why did they only start flying the flag during the Civil Rights movement as an expression of white supremacy?

[MrFun]

I see SlowwHand does not care to continue the discussion even after Chegitz and I gave our answers.



But anyway, no one has been able to answer my question yet.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Then why did they only start flying the flag during the Civil Rights movement as an expression of white supremacy?

You seem to think everyone does things for the same reason. Like was said, one of the main reasons people fly it is because they know people like you get so pissed off about it. You make it worse by reacting the way you do. You condemn people for waiving the confederate flag around when you flaunt symbols that are equally offensive to some. It's so easy to get over, all you have to do is try.

People are going to associate themselves with symbols according to how they see them. You may ask a person what the confederate banner means to them and you will get different answers from different people. Some will claim it as a symbol of white power. Others will claim it as a symbol of Southern heritiage while others will claim it as the spirit of rebellion. Its the same with other symbols such as the hammer and sickle, the star of david, the cross, the crescent, or the Iron Cross. Remember that being tolerant doesnt only mean people having to look at your symbols but you having to look at other people's as well.

[Ramo]

First, the North had conscription also.
The fact that each STATE had conscription has nothing to do with your question.observation, GePap.

Actually, the Confederate government (not the individual states) had conscription. A year before the Federal government had conscription.

[Patroklos]

Exactly, you assuming everyone everyone that carries the confederate flag is a white supremacisit is using the same logic that all black people are poor, or all white people are rich. The people YOU saw were like this, but that hardly makes it indicative of any demographic at large.

Awesome though Che, lets take footage of civil rights marches 30-40 years ago and apply it to today. I will go ahead and assume because of your Avatar that you hate Jews, advocate the slaughter of political disidents, and are a general Stalinist becasue of the symbol in your Avatar. Becasue you knoe the god star has always had a static meaning

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Exactly, you assuming everyone everyone that carries the confederate flag is a white supremacisit is using the same logic that all black people are poor, or all white people are rich. The people YOU saw were like this, but that hardly makes it indicative of any demographic at large.

Awesome though Che, lets take footage of civil rights marches 30-40 years ago and apply it to today. I will go ahead and assume because of your Avatar that you hate Jews, advocate the slaughter of political disidents, and are a general Stalinist becasue of the symbol in your Avatar. Becasue you knoe the god star has always had a static meaning

True, symbols can have multiple meanings depending on the context or circumstance of its display and use.

So please tell me why the majority of blacks are either indifferent, or offended by the Confederate flag.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by MrFun
And I suppose all the viewers of this thread were tongue-tied as to finding an intelligible answer on why the vast majority of blacks do not celebrate the "Lost Cause" mythology as many white Southerners and a number of white Northerners do.

Now why in hell would they do that? Lost cause or not, feedmen or slaves, "house ******s" or "field ******s" or runaways, if you were a black man in the USA or CSA in that era, you were patronized at best, despised and treated as subhuman at worst. If you were a black woman, things could and often did get quite a bit worse, as most all women were viewed as chattel.

Other than you surviving the trip out of Africa, or more likely in those late antebellum days, your parents or grandparents surviving the trip out of Africa and then giving birth to you in a cotton shack or stable, what the hell was there to be celebratin'? Then throw in more than a hundred more years of discrimination and degradation on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line, some of it more overt and vicious, some of it slightly more subtle.

With all that, what exactly in this glorious legacy of American history is there for most blacks to celebrate or embrace, other than mere survival?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by MrFun
So please tell me why the majority of blacks are either indifferent, or offended by the Confederate flag.

Because it's been used as a symbol by Kluckers and other *******s, many of whom have no historical or personal connection to the Confederacy.

[Patroklos]

All the ones I know, and having lived in the south I know lots of minorities there, and bieng in the military I know lots from everywhere, don't give a damn what flag is bieng waved. Or they think it is funny.

Not to mention all those crowds you see at the various protests, such as the South Carolina capital building, were not form South Carolina. These are people that get their rocks off by traveling from place to place protesting. They are "professionals." It is funny, they actually organize these bus tours like vacations, and thats what they are treated as. Because there was no protests at night. They were all drunk at Five Points with me, and the protest got started a little later the next morning, and not so much screaming and yelling on the second day either, alot of sunglasses and bottled water though.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Mr. Fun,

Nobody supports the Lost Cause, black or white. In fact you are the only one who believes it exists.

-Pat

Yeah - who in hell ever said it was lost?

"We'll fight 'em 'til hell freezes over, then we'll fight 'em on the ice" - anonymous private of the 48th Georgia Volunteers, asked by a dumbass Richmond reporter if the ANV still had the will to fight the Yankees after the retreat from Gettysburg.

[Sprayber]

Mr. Fun: You should read Kenneth C. Barnes's "The Williams Clan: Mountain Farmers and Union Fighters in North Central Arkansas. It might be interesting to you.

[MrFun]

I'm well aware of Southern Unionists who resisted the Confederacy -- we're talking about my particular area of interest here, but no, I have not read that specific book, Sprayber. It might be worth checking that one out.

[chequita guevara]

Why don't more Southerners embrace their copperhead ancestry?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Awesome though Che, lets take footage of civil rights marches 30-40 years ago and apply it to today. I will go ahead and assume because of your Avatar that you hate Jews, advocate the slaughter of political disidents, and are a general Stalinist becasue of the symbol in your Avatar. Becasue you knoe the god star has always had a static meaning

Given that the man in the picture is a Jew and is Leon Trotskty, I'd just laugh heartily at you.

the ones I know, and having lived in the south I know lots of minorities there, and bieng in the military I know lots from everywhere, don't give a damn what flag is bieng waved. Or they think it is funny.

You know, just because you know people doesn't mean they necessarily tell you what they really feel. It's hard to have to educate every dumb SOB in the world about what racist *******s they are, and a lot of the time Black folks just let stuff slide in order to just be able to have a friggin' life.

Since I don't know you or your friends, I can't say what is or is not the case, but it's something of which you should be aware. It may just be that they place a higher value on your friendship than having that discussion with you. It may be that they're just damn tired of having the discussion. It's not as if Black folks like always having to be the Black person.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Given that the man in the picture is a Jew and is Leon Trotskty, I'd just laugh heartily at you.

Given what happened to Comrade Trotsky and who was responsible, don't laugh too hard.

You know, just because you know people doesn't mean they necessarily tell you what they really feel. It's hard to have to educate every dumb SOB in the world about what racist *******s they are, and a lot of the time Black folks just let stuff slide in order to just be able to have a friggin' life.

Since I don't know you or your friends, I can't say what is or is not the case, but it's something of which you should be aware. It may just be that they place a higher value on your friendship than having that discussion with you. It may be that they're just damn tired of having the discussion. It's not as if Black folks like always having to be the Black person.

And the simple fact is a large number of people (far more than those who get bent out of shape) simply don't give a **** about the CSA battle flag. Now if it comes to white sheets and burning crosses, you'll get a much stronger reaction from a lot more folks, but the whole flag thing is way overdone.