Quiet Britons outpace US in taming Iraq

[Ted Striker]

I agree with JohnT, don't Mecca big deal out of it.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Come on, now, whaleboy, you can't generalize like that.

While it may be true that the British have a reputation as being easy going, you can't say no American operation has the same qualities. Like, for example, I think Maj. Gen. David Petraeus of the 101st Airborn in Mosul has put forth a tremendous effort to do just that. But yet, resistance is still met in most American quarters, which I think implies that there's more to it than being "easy-going". This article is a good indication of that:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3606133/

couple excerpts:

No U.S. commander in Iraq has done a smarter job than Maj. Gen. David Petraeus. Practically every military observer agrees: in the seven months since his troops took charge in the northern city of Mosul, the 101st Airborne Division commander has put in a flawless performance. That’s what’s most troublesome.

Petraeus and his troops have produced a textbook example of waging peace, empowering the civilian populace, repairing the economy, even sending local kids to summer camp. Mosul had the first functioning city council in post-Saddam Iraq. Petraeus has ordered big signs posted in every barracks: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO WIN IRAQI HEARTS AND MINDS TODAY? But for the last month or so the public’s mood has turned hostile. Guerrilla attacks, once rare, have become routine. In the past six weeks, 31 of Petraeus’s soldiers have died in action, including one who was killed last Friday in a direct mortar hit on division headquarters. As the general remarked to NEWSWEEK last week, “It’s difficult to be kind when you’re getting shot at.”

One more:

Now the cash is gone, and the first installments of Congress’s new appropriations have yet to arrive. The people of Mosul feel cheated. “We’re all contending with the ‘man on the moon’ problem,” says Petraeus. “The locals say, ‘You’re capable of putting a man on the moon, and you haven’t given me a job’.” The general is philosophical about their resentments. “Try as we will to be an army of liberation, over time they will take you for granted. And as hard as you may try to repair any damage that’s ever done, or avoid inconveniencing people, it’s inevitable when you’re conducting military operations that there will be some of this.” No one understands better than a career soldier the limits of what armed force can achieve. It’s one of the fundamental axioms of guerrilla warfare: an insurgency can be contained by military means, but it can be defeated only by political means.

I think a big reason for the resentment of American forces is just that expectations of the US are so high that the Iraqis get disappointed when everything doesn't go exactly right immediately, whereas they don't expect as much from the British (no offense).

[Ted Striker]

good point

they have very high expectations

often they are unrealistic

[PLATO]

The British are bringing decades of experience as a once mighty colonial power to bear on the task of pacifying the south; and the military has shown far greater sensitivity than its American counterpart to the needs of a proud and volatile people.

More like centuries. For a power that once ruled 25% of the world, one would surely expect them to be better at nation building than just about anyone. Especially us upstart colonials.

[Ted Striker]

true

they are the best at it

[JimmyCracksCorn]

The British are bringing decades of experience as a once mighty colonial power to bear on the task of pacifying the south; and the military has shown far greater sensitivity than its American counterpart to the needs of a proud and volatile people.

What a dumb thing to say. As if the UK is one, 2,000 year old person, with all this experience.

They know their history because its written down, and its not like, believe it or not, Americans can't read. Jesus.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


What a dumb thing to say. As if the UK is one, 2,000 year old person, with all this experience.

They know their history because its written down, and its not like, believe it or not, Americans can't read. Jesus.

Many of the old colonial institutions still exist as liasons for the commonwealth. Procedures that were hammered out over centuries are in place. This is far more than you can get from a book and starting from scratch.

[Evil Knevil]

Previous numbers incorrect.

Well, some surveys suggest that 30% of Missips are illiterate, and that some 40 million Americans can't fill out a simple form(or point out the expiration date on a drivers license).

[Kuciwalker]

Huh? I'd love to see your sources...

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Evil Knevil
Well, 1/3 of Alabamans are 'totally' illiterate. Alledged 1/4 of your country is 'functionally' illiterate.

oh my

GET THE **** OUT WITH THAT NONSENSE

that's the stupidest sh1t i've ever heard


obviously YOU are illiterate when it comes to statistics

talk about poor reading comprehension skills

[Whoha]

Originally posted by skywalker


Why? I wasn't being sarcastic.

the southern shiites aren't pro saddam.

[Evil Knevil]

(The alabaman thing is something my history teacher told me about 10 years ago)

I'll get back to you....

What's more likely is that 1/4 of Americans are either too stubborn or too stupid to answer a survey on illiteracy!

[Tripledoc]

Regarding the stiffening resistance in Mosul mentioned in the article above, which claims that the population has come to expect so much from the American occupiers. Well, another way to look at it, is that the socalled Shock and Awe effect is beginning to wear off. Lets face it. The immediate period up to the war, and during the war itself a massive propaganda effort was launched in concert with the bombings and the ground operation. In fact I heard just now on the radio that after this initial shock the Iraqis are gathering their resolve, and seem to now be rallying around the nationalists. Both the idea that the resistance was from foreign insurgents, and the idea that it was Saddam who was in control must now be discarded as Whitehouse spin. In fact Saddam was probaby a captive of the kurds for many months, before he was handed over to the Americans.

[JohnT]

His statistics come from his ass. Most accepted sources put the US literacy rate at 97%.

[Nubclear]

Utah has a 25% functioningly illiterate rate