"African American"

[Tripledoc]

Ok the theory could be made that in fact all Americans in power are in fact whitened American Indians. That is why they are so photogenic with their aquiline noses and full lips and low foreheads.

In that case present American culture would in fact be original, and the white Germanic culture would simply be absorbed into the process as helpful underlings

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by GePap
sadly, this does not work- the blood part of ethnicity always comes out strongest. Notice how you never see someone in germany say "I am Bavarian-German", or I am "Saxon-German", nor do you see people call themselves "Scottish-British", or "Alsace-French

It didn't used to be that way. Until the late nineteenth century. Europeans were once proud of their local heritage. Once germans were proud to be Bavarians or Saxons, Frenchmen were proud to be Normans or Gascons, Englishmen were proud to be Yorkshiremen or Cornish. In the later half of the nineteenth century conservative European politicians propagandized nationalism over local heritage as a means to repel radical political movements. In the end the hyper-nationalism they fostered slaughtered them all.

[Japher]

Which is why different groups needed to remind them that, just because we're Italian, and you won't let us live in the suburbs with you, doesn't mean we aren't Americans. We won our fight. We're included. We're happy with who we are, and if you don't like it, you can go suck on a piece of Wonderbread.

That is a good argument for the keeping the name

[GePap]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


It didn't used to be that way. Until the late nineteenth century. Europeans were once proud of their local heritage. Once germans were proud to be Bavarians or Saxons, Frenchmen were proud to be Normans or Gascons, Englishmen were proud to be Yorkshiremen or Cornish. In the later half of the nineteenth century conservative European politicians propagandized nationalism over local heritage as a means to repel radical political movements. In the end the hyper-nationalism they fostered slaughtered them all.

I agree, but a man would call himself Bavarian, not Bavarian-German. That is the point. Whatever comes in the front of a hyphen is simply an adjective describing the thing, so an African-American is still saying "I am an American".

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


This is the second time I have been accused of being a DL. Well I am truly sorry that I don't conform to your CIA/Mossad culture but please refrain from ad hominem attacks and adress the issues.

I like whoever created this DL. He's funny and ironic

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


It didn't used to be that way. Until the late nineteenth century. Europeans were once proud of their local heritage. Once germans were proud to be Bavarians or Saxons, Frenchmen were proud to be Normans or Gascons, Englishmen were proud to be Yorkshiremen or Cornish. In the later half of the nineteenth century conservative European politicians propagandized nationalism over local heritage as a means to repel radical political movements. In the end the hyper-nationalism they fostered slaughtered them all.

Celtish cuture is still very strong in Europe. In France, England, Spain and Belgium for instance. The folk music scene is an evidence of this. So the argument that 'hyper-nationalism' tied in with the postal service should have squashed the basis of a trans-euro culture is highly exaggerated.

[Kuciwalker]

I think that pride over one's skin color (such as "Black Pride") is incredibly stupid, whether or not you agree nationalism is somewhat stupid. At least with nationalism, you can think maybe you are contributing somewhat to greatness. Why should you be proud that people with the same skin color as you did cool stuff? How does that somehow make you proud? Should I be proud that all of the US presidents have been white?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
To Che:

IMO, you do have to be like me in as much that you have to have the same culture,

The hell you say.

What I mean by assimilating is that you have to put up with there being other cultures, and unlike you those cultures have different pactrices and that they must be respected as much as they need to respect yours...

And you do this by telling them they can't call themselves by their culture?

This is rarely the case.

Your arguments are a prime example of it.

Also, it has been my experience, that many foreign nationals, and even some 2nd, 3rd generation immigrants are the most racist people of all,

True dat.

They bring in hatred perpetuated by national ties, which no longer should exist once they step foot in our country.

Why should they be better than the rest of us Americans?

then you respect America for that and don't suckle our teet while cursing us.

See above question.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by skywalker
I think that pride over one's skin color (such as "Black Pride") is incredibly stupid, whether or not you agree nationalism is somewhat stupid. At least with nationalism, you can think maybe you are contributing somewhat to greatness. Why should you be proud that people with the same skin color as you did cool stuff?

You really need to consider the context. Black pride is a repsonse to people being told they are inferior for having Black skin. Black pride is about not being ashamed of being Black, and if you don't think that's a real problem, I would suggest you don't know very many Black people.

[Japher]

And you do this by telling them they can't call themselves by their culture?

I never said that. I have argued that nationality is different than culture. I asked that they leave their national ties at the door not their culture, I even invite that in. American culture relies on the meeting and mixing of other cultures.

Your arguments are a prime example of it.

I am very tolerant of other cultures, and love the fact that there are many here. My arguments represent the fact that in order for me to do so I have to succeed my own culture, most of the time, and when I do not I am called a racist or xenophobe for it.

Why should they be better than the rest of us Americans?

I hold all people to the same standards.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You really need to consider the context. Black pride is a repsonse to people being told they are inferior for having Black skin. Black pride is about not being ashamed of being Black, and if you don't think that's a real problem, I would suggest you don't know very many Black people.

Being called inferior because of your skin color is also stupid. However, "Black Pride" means "Black Pride", not "Black Is-Just-As-Good-As-Anyone-Else-ness".

[chequita guevara]

Okay, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say you are making your argument badly, very badly. What you are saying is that when peope come to the U.S., they should realize that they are going to have to adapt to life in America and accept some of our ways.

This is not the same thing as saying people shouldn't be able to be African-AMericans or Italian-Americans. This is an entirely seperate argument from whether or not people with different ancestries have the right to call themselves whatever the hell they want. If we want to call ourselves Martian-Americans, just respect that, okay. What makes American great is that we can be hyphen-Americans, and still be Americans. If I move to Italy, I'll never be an American-Italian or an Italian. I'll always be an American. My kids will be Americans. Their kids will be Americans. Because the old world isn't inclusive. We are. Most of us anyway. Not you. You want people to forget where they came from and eat Wonderbread, drink Budweiser, and listen to New Kids on the Block.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by skywalker
Being called inferior because of your skin color is also stupid. However, "Black Pride" means "Black Pride", not "Black Is-Just-As-Good-As-Anyone-Else-ness".

And you know that because you've read the writings of Black Pride advocates or because Rush told you that's what it means?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And you know that because you've read the writings of Black Pride advocates or because Rush told you that's what it means?

As I've never even heard anything Rush has said, I'm pretty sure the idea didn't come from him

Why not "Black Equality" if they merely want blacks to be equal? "Black Pride" means nothing more than saying that it is somehow special to be black. It isn't, any more than it is special to be white.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Okay, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say you are making your argument badly, very badly. What you are saying is that when peope come to the U.S., they should realize that they are going to have to adapt to life in America and accept some of our ways.

This is not the same thing as saying people shouldn't be able to be African-AMericans or Italian-Americans. This is an entirely seperate argument from whether or not people with different ancestries have the right to call themselves whatever the hell they want. If we want to call ourselves Martian-Americans, just respect that, okay. What makes American great is that we can be hyphen-Americans, and still be Americans. If I move to Italy, I'll never be an American-Italian or an Italian. I'll always be an American. My kids will be Americans. Their kids will be Americans. Because the old world isn't inclusive. We are. Most of us anyway. Not you. You want people to forget where they came from and eat Wonderbread, drink Budweiser, and listen to New Kids on the Block.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that it's STUPID to take pride in your frigging skin color. Wow, I happen to have more melanin (sp?), aren't I special?

It's like "Blonde Pride" or "Dangling Earlobes Pride".