Saddam Hussein arrested

[Spiffor]

Sorry not to chime in with other leftists on this one, but I wonder why he should be judged at the Hague. It's the Iraqis who have suffered from him, and I think his trial should be done in Iraq without foreign interference, except Iran's and Kuweit's.

The US will obviously interfere, which is sad. But I wonder why the judgement of this Iraqi murderer should not belong to the Iraqis themselves

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

The fact that current international tribunals see their legitimacy stemming FROM Nuremberg and use it as a model is evidence to the contrary of what you say.

The fact that international tribunals use Nuremburg as a model does not mean than Nuremburg was an international tribunal in any way.

Seriously, if you don't even know what an international tribunal is, why do you go to the trouble of arguing about them?

The only thing at issue here is YOUR definition of what it takes to be an international tribunal. Nuremberg is the ur-international tribunal, and the case law created there is the genesis for modern international tribunals for Bosnia and Rwanda.

Would this be an international tribunal? Not if the Iraqi government (whenever that comes into being) has full control of the proceedings.

Given that this arguement is based on your definitional problems, I wll move on.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Sorry not to chime in with other leftists on this one, but I wonder why he should be judged at the Hague. It's the Iraqis who have suffered from him, and I think his trial should be done in Iraq without foreign interference, except Iran's and Kuweit's.

The US will obviously interfere, which is sad. But I wonder why the judgement of this Iraqi murderer should not belong to the Iraqis themselves

I would be fine using that court set up by the governing council created under the model of international tribunals. How the interests of Iran and Kuwait are met is an interesting question.

[Pekka]

Not exactly on topic, but I noticed that in many forums that many people are usually critical about the US and especially Bush gov, and the war etc etc, is now congratulating Bush and the troops for job well done. I think it should be remembered, that even some of the creeps who don't agree with us (who supported the war from the beginning) are not always against us......

[Drake Tungsten]

Given that this arguement is based on your definitional problems, I wll move on.

Good. I'll go back to reading about the exploits of the international coalition in Iraq.

Seems any group of countries can be considered "international" these days, whether they're actually acting under the guise of an international governing body or not...

[GePap]

Final point on the trial issue:

If the international community has the right to intervene in the actions of a sovering state to end abuses against human rights and end crimes againt humanity, then said community would seem to be the one best suited for a trial as well. In the end it will be internationa law under which the man will be tried, even if the court ends up being an interal Iraqi court set up specifically to handle such a prosecution.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Sorry not to chime in with other leftists on this one, but I wonder why he should be judged at the Hague. It's the Iraqis who have suffered from him, and I think his trial should be done in Iraq without foreign interference, except Iran's and Kuweit's.

The US will obviously interfere, which is sad. But I wonder why the judgement of this Iraqi murderer should not belong to the Iraqis themselves

Because there is no government in Iraq... plus, Saddam commited war crimes.

BTW, from a US standpoint, if we don't try him in international court, wouldn't that mean he didn't commit any crimes against the international community? The whole US argument is that he was a threat to the international community and that he needed to be "brought to justice". While I might not completely agree with that sentiment, I recognize that it would be important for US credibility to have him be tried at The Hague. Plus, I think that an Iraqi trial would make it easier for Saddam loyalists to do something. How do you filter out Ba'athist elements from the courts? if there are any courts, that is.

No, Iraq needs to focus on rebuilding and creating a government. And we shouldn't let Saddam just sit around and wait for that. Get the guy on trial and put him away. I would like to see him executed, but I know the Hague doesn't have the DP, and that's fine. Let him rot in a Dutch prison.

[oedo]

I also see nothing that could justify judging him in Hague. the UN completely failed in Iraq since 1991 (and probably even before). I fail to see, how the Iraqi population would accept this.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Given that this arguement is based on your definitional problems, I wll move on.

Good. I'll go back to reading about the exploits of the international coalition in Iraq.

Seems any group of countries can be considered "international" these days, whether they're actually acting under the guise of an international governing body or not...

Just ask the Bush adminitration and the State Department. And again with the "international governing body"

[Sava]

Originally posted by Pekka
Not exactly on topic, but I noticed that in many forums that many people are usually critical about the US and especially Bush gov, and the war etc etc, is now congratulating Bush and the troops for job well done. I think it should be remembered, that even some of the creeps who don't agree with us (who supported the war from the beginning) are not always against us......

but Pekka, the dope mentality in the US is that "they are with us or against us"... meaning everyone who opposed the war is a terrorist.

[PLATO]

Thank Goodness!!


Who cares where he is tried? The f**ker will no longer be involved in the death of innocent people.

This is just great news whatever your politics.


Woohoo!!!!

[Drake Tungsten]

If the international community has the right to intervene in the actions of a sovering state to end abuses against human rights and end crimes againt humanity, then said community would seem to be the one best suited for a trial as well.

The international community didn't intervene to end Hussein's abuses...

[Dr Strangelove]

Tried at the Hague? He'd have to be imprisoned for at least a while in the Netherlands then right? How do you think the growing Muslim population of Europe is going to take that? Can you visualize the PM of the Netherlands proudly proclaiming: "BRING IT ON" as angry Muslim suicide bombers vent their ire on the streets of Rotterdam?

[GePap]

How dare you diss the Coolition!

[Drake Tungsten]

How dare you diss the Coolition!

I'm not dissing them. I think they did a good thing. However, the Coalition is multi-national, not international.