What is the fundamental root of homophobia?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ned
Mr.Fun, there is more than one way to make an argument, is there not?

Sorry -- I misunderstood your intentions.

[Drake Tungsten]

Does anyone else want to elaborate on the similarities or differences between homophobia of Western nations and that of non-Western nations??

Similarity - In both Western and non-Western nations, homophobia involves hating homosexuals.

[MrFun]

Yeah, no kidding -- so what is the fundamental root of homophobia that can apply to Western societies and non-Western societies??

[Drake Tungsten]

The belief that homosexuality is a disgusting and unnatural act?

Not as complicated as your theory, but probably closer to the truth...

[yavoon]

I don't wish any discrimination on homosexuals. but I must say. the thot creeps the **** outta me. maybe this is societal, maybe its hormonal. who knows. but I don't think its an externalized problem as much as a revulsion.

[Enigma_Nova]

Wasn't it Freud who claimed that all humans are inherently bisexual?
If Freud is correct, there must be a reason why people aspire to monosexuality.

My initial guess would be the innate desire to conform. This might explain why the more... 'conventional' older folk tend to be monosexual, while the sexually liberated teenagers are converging to multisexuality, at least in my province.

If people are inherently one way or the other, then a certain section of this population is denying who they are.
Denile of self leads to stress. Based on what I've personally seen, bisexual folk I know are less stressed than monosexual folk.

Then, what would be the motive behind the wave of monosexuality, and heterosexuality in particular?
The ancient greeks, in their practises, did not seem to be against homosexual or bisexual practices.

However, the Jews were against this practice, as written in their book.
Anyone know the Viking Nordic or the Ancient Chinese stance on the issue? Perhaps this issue can be traced.

What are the differences between the societies?
One had thinkers, the other had followers.
I can see the merit of proscribing a heterosexual-only relationship. The people will reproduce more.

Of course, the Judeo-Christian system caused a lot of 'absolutes' to come about, which are basically just ways of conning people into being productive.
Unfortunately (for whatever reason) this play on human follower tendencies rapidly took hold.

The conformist machine essentially dicated what a human should be, and people aspire to be like this, defying their own nature.
While people CAN perform actions they would prefer not to, the tendency is to fit the self to the environment rather than to secretly oppose the environment.
People tend to fit in with their beliefs, and their beliefs are molded to match their actions because the human brain really hates having contradictions in self.

Note that this fudgework does not change your innate desire. A person can and often does change their innate desire but it is only ever an individualistic thing - I can change myself, but no-one else.
The way we construct ourselves and percieve ourselves is sometimes different to what and who we are.

NOW to your main point.

If Bisexuality is a tendency, and people deny this urge, they're going to become stressed.
Stress, unresolved as it is, the human brain will try to find a reason for its existence. Automatic rationalisation.
However, The Brain will instinctively avoid 'known truths' in searching for an explaination.

This is why we are beleaguered when the train is late; It's an expectation that it arrives on time. We're even more beleaguered when a loved one 'cheats' on us, due to a higher expectation.
And of course, we'd be even more buggered when a known truth is violated.

These 'known truths' can be taught. We pick them up, sometimes without realising, from our environments and peers. We do not need to be explicitly told how to be similar, it comes naturally.

So, in a society with ideas of Heterosexuality and Masculinity, people have a mental conflict with the antipodes of these ideas.
People deal with it in different ways.

Some Suppress it.
Some Overfully accept it (and become entirely homosexual)
A few people actually deal with it
While some rationalise their dissent.

People, in their arrogance, do not presume themselves to be at fault (remember, the brain automatically tries to fix contradictions). So, some people presume homosexuality to be 'bad', and in doing so distance themselves from it.

Of course this is a bull**** argument. Their stress is directed towards the 'bad' side, not noticing that it is their own denile which causes the stress.

Of course, some people are pretty hetero-biased. These folk can jump the accusatory bandwagon, and often do.
Such stigma exists because one person dreamt it, and others follow his or her dreams.
Their motives come not from stress but by conformism. They'll act like they believe the masses.

While its true that people are disgusted by some things, that does not nescesarily make us fear them. Personally, I'd hate to work in customer service, but I do not fear a customer service rep.
However, I would fear BECOMING a customer service rep.

In this instance, people fear becoming what they find painful (for the obvious reason of we fear pain). For conformists, this would be a fear of falling to 'the dark side' of androgyny and accepting people's different orientations.
Some people fear that they already are what they dislike (and in most cases the reason is because it is true!). Some accept it while others deny it and scapegoat.

---

Mind you, by my own arguments there should be stress among overtly gay people in that they too might be heterophobic.
Judging by some people I know this is indeed the case with some of them.

Psychoanalysis of Homosexuality by Enigma_Nova.

[Kuciwalker]

We're using Freud as evidence in an argument?

[:) Smiley]

any explanations on why female homosexuality is more accepted than male homosexuality?

[Kuciwalker]

porno?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Wasn't it Freud who claimed that all humans are inherently bisexual?
If Freud is correct, there must be a reason why people aspire to monosexuality.
i]

basing an entire post on the assumption that freud was correct isnt the best place to put ur bet.

[Drake Tungsten]

any explanations on why female homosexuality is more accepted than male homosexuality?

It isn't as disgusting to most people as male homosexuality is. That's my theory, anyway.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

any explanations on why female homosexuality is more accepted than male homosexuality?

It isn't as disgusting to most people as male homosexuality is. That's my theory, anyway.

Well I think female homosexuality sucks. Less prospect of nookie for Joe Six-packs like me.

Female bisexuality, well.. that's another story. All I want to say about that is yyyyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhhheeeeee!!!!!!!

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Agathon


Well I think female homosexuality sucks. Less prospect of nookie for Joe Six-packs like me.

Female bisexuality, well.. that's another story. All I want to say about that is yyyyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhhheeeeee!!!!!!!

Would you say that if your wife ran off with Sally and left you with the children?


Would you say that if your wife ran off with Sally and took the children with her?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Would you say that if your wife ran off with Sally and left you with the children?


Would you say that if your wife ran off with Sally and took the children with her?

(a) I don't have kids.

(b) If my wife ran off with anyone, the gender of that person would be the least of my worries. Why would it be any different that if I ran off with Sally?

Look, I don't really care if people are gay. It doesn't bother me that much and I can't take all the hand-wringing about the subject seriously anymore. I suppose if you read Classics for long enough, its hard to see what people are complaining about.

I mean who gives a toss - it makes them happy and its none of my business. I mean - I think that we should focus on persecuting the real threats to our civilization like Shania Twain fans and Microsoft.

[Shi Huangdi]

I don't think all forms of homophobia are the same. I would say there are three major and distinct forms of anti-homosexuality that need to be accounted for:

- Soft Religious Anti-Homosexuality: It's debatable whether this group can be called homophobic at all. This is typically mostly mainstream to conservative Christian conservatives. This group sticks to the "Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner" line, with the amount of hate given to the sin depending on the religious group in question. This group will maintain that homosexuality is a sin, but for the most part does not hate or dislike individual gay people. Still, this group tends to be heterosexist and usually opposes gay rights laws.

- Hard Religious Anti-Homosexuality: This would be the fundamentalists, a la Falwell and Robertson. Many of them might not claim to hate gay people, but it sure seems like they do. They are brash and vociferous about loudly claiming that homosexuality is one of the greatest evils today. They often feel that discriminating against homosexuals is OK, and have often opposed anti-gay discrimination laws. This group fervently maintains that homosexuals will burn in Hell. On the more extreme side, you will see this group preach their homophobia loudly on the streets or even in the case of people like Fred Phelps picket funerals for gay people. In the Islamic world, this is very strong leading to societies in which homosexuals are put to death.

- Secular Homophobia: The most virulent strain of homophobia in the US in my opinion. This type of homophobia is similar to any other prejudice causing people to hate others, and perhaps most similar to what motivates Middle School Bullies. They don't hold strong religious beliefes, but they find homosexuality icky and so decide to be cruel. This is the group that is most likely to committ hate crimes, to beat up gay people, to disparage them. This is the group that terrorizes homosexual students and drives them to commit sucide. This group will discriminate against homosexuals because they simply hate them. In my opinion this group is the greatest problem...