Global Warming Has Been Happening For A Long Time

[Ned]

Originally posted by cia
Urban Ranger, I listened for three painful hours how a UN scientist told me how the surface temperature of the Earth is rising while the temperature planetwide at 10000 feet is falling and the oceans fluctuate too much to gain consistant reading. Look at the average CO and CO2 expulsions from a small volcanic explosion and measure it against the yearly output of the human activity the scientists peg on humans. It's a rat's pituitary gland of difference if the volcanio is not larger. It is in my mind human hubris that we can change the Earth's ecosystem at will. It's like saying enough pesticide can kill all the cockroaches in any major city. I would bet you a million to one against it.

Then, if you are right cia, we can do nothing to prevent a new ice age which is now "overdue."

Actually, if CO2 did rise enough so that it was noticed in the ice samples, I suspect it did have a small effect on temperature. Perhaps the differences between an ice age and not is very precariously balanced because ice ages tend to last 95,000 out of every 100,000 years. After a warm period is 5,000 years old, it may not take much to throw the Earth back into the cold.

[Sandman]

The effects of global warming can be seen in the decrease of Arctic sea ice over the past few years, as well as the retreat of glaciers across the globe.

[The Mad Monk]

We're not discussing it's existance, just it's history.

[Az]

CO2 levels have NEVER been so high, AFAIK.
CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

take those two together and you get rapid global warming.

My biggest beef with this is that we're not controlling the process. There is no genuine, uninfluenced debate, since the side that is claiming there's nothing to worry about ( a fair pov ) is supported by interest groups which don't care at all about an honest debate on the subject, but do care a lot about their profits that would suffer because of any "unwelcome" conclusion from this debate.

In short: I'd believe anti-global warming people a lot more, if they weren't supported by certain corporations.

All that said, That "humans must be humble" bull**** from some eco-fans pisses me off just as much. We ARE able to control nature. We have been doing this for some time now. Now the trick is to control nature, while at the same time being fully aware of the consequences of our actions. More careful, more well-thought, ever self-improving? for sure. Raising our hands, and saying "we just aren't good enough"- No way.

[RGBVideo]

In short, our evil, evil ways have saved our skinny butts from being encased in ice.

This is not news for anyone who has been awake at elementary geology and/or physics classes.

[The Mad Monk]

I know.

I majored in geology.

[The Mad Monk]

It's why I start to chuckle when folks mention things like "ancient forests".



Nothing alive today is ancient.

[MrWhereItsAt]

There's some severe scaremongering going on here.

Ice-core records from Greenland have shown that CO2 levels have risen and fallen to levels far beyond our current state, and at similar rates, over the last several hundred thousand years, at times without ANY human industry.

Satellite measurements have shown a global temperature increase of .00001% over the last 50 years, far less than some sources have used in their conclusions.

The estimated amounts of carbon dioxide ejected into the atmosphere from natural processes (fires and decomposure of vegetable material) still exceed human created CO2 by a large amount.

All these are examples of why we cannot simply assume we are having a large adverse effect on greenhouse gases.

Why not simply assume that we are responsible for the sharp decrease in magnetic field strength associated with the last 4-500 years of civilisation? After all, we have been creating magnetic fields of our own since around then. Just because two events are coincident does not mean they are connected. From geological, paleontological and climactic records it is clear the Earth goes through periodic changes from the current situation. Humanity may be having such a tiny influence on the presence of greenhouse gases as to be effectively NEGLIGIBLE.

My point is that, although we certainly create greenhouse gases, there is not sufficient evidence to indicate we have caused any change in temperature across the world that is dramatically influencing a regular cycle dictated by the sun and biological cycles.

Although climactic records as I have referred to come solely from Greenland, there is no greater reason to believe any of the evidence FOR the human-induced increase in greenhouse gases over that evidence that acts AGAINST such a conclusion. There is such uncertainty about this in scientific circles that you really have to take EVERY conclusion so far as being unproven. Do yourselves a favour and do not trust anyone in this matter without checking the results for yourself. I personally was convinced of humanity's cause of global warming until a lecture given recently by an atmosphertic physicist at my University. The reason for my belief was that I thought it was common knowledge that global warming was real. The evidence pointed elsewhere, and I adjusted my understanding accordingly.

[Az]

Ice-core records from Greenland have shown that CO2 levels have risen and fallen to levels far beyond our current state, and at similar rates, over the last several hundred thousand years, at times without ANY human industry.

link?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well I was referring to this recent lecture, so I did not expect to find much if any data supporting this on the Net yet, but I HAVE found a graph supporting my report that natural non-industrial CO2 levels can exceed those from recent times.

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/edu/dees/ees/climate/slides/CO2.Vostok.Moana.Loa.gif

[The Mad Monk]

What severe scaremongering?


If you find that article scarey, you have a very low threshold of fear...

[Mercator]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
In short, our evil, evil ways have saved our skinny butts from being encased in ice.

But not necessarily forever. Global warming can actually make it colder in some places too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/bigchill.shtml

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
1. This is easy. There's no known natural source that can release greenhouse gases like humans can.

They're called "animals"

they breath too

[Az]

smartass. he was talking about our activities that lie outside the biological realm.

MWIA: these are the right numbers, you're right. still, the CO2 levels WILL rise. and that's the real danger.

[Kuciwalker]

smartass

Thanks

he was talking about our activities that lie outside the biological realm.

So? I would bet that normal biology contributes a significant amount of (if not the majority of) greenhouse gases each year. After all, until we came around, it was pretty much the ONLY source except for perhaps volcanoes.