Israel -- "Wants Peace" eh?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by paiktis22
I was talking about the aid and annual no less, not the additional guaranteed loans,

well then thats only the $2.7 billion they get every year (its value in euros dropping by the day ) plus the $1 billion one off. How does that come to $10 billion?unless you were looking at what Israel REQUESTED, rather than what the US APPROVED.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


well then thats only the $2.7 billion they get every year (its value in euros dropping by the day ) plus the $1 billion one off. How does that come to $10 billion?unless you were looking at what Israel REQUESTED, rather than what the US APPROVED.

Have you been noticing the dollar/euro exchange rate lately? I think you should rename it to lira or something
Seriously though, you simply come to my words. 3 bil. a year of aid, and Israel saying that the US has granted it another 9 bil. in guarantee loans. I'm pretty sure this can be characterized as aid and a rather generous one...

[Al'Kimiya]

I find the term 'incursion' biased and anti-semitic. This thread is such a trollfest.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
2. Israeli soldiers killed in the territories

You forgot to insert 'occupied'.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Some American leaders say they denounce murder, then they do not do anything to stop murderers before they kill.

Gaaahhhhh!!!!! Minority Report!!!!!! 1984!!!!!! Police State!!!!!!

*Runs around like a chicken with its head cut off*

[GePap]

Israel has been given a lot of loans, and they also get a lot of loans forgiven on a regular basis.

The problem here is simple: two groups that wish to be disinct claim th very same piece of real-estate, but since 1945 wipping the other side out violently, which would have been the old fashioned solution, is frowned upon given the notion that each human being has rights, and as such the wholesale killing of individuals is disapproved of. So either one side gives up and moves out (won't happen), one side wipes the other out (won't happen), one side eventually overwhelms the other with numbers (mght happen), or the land is split (might happen).

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Why is it that people like you have all this compassion for the children of one side, but the far more likely to be killed children of the other side aren't worth mentioning? More Palestinian children die than Israeli children.

Yes -- I agree -- more Palestinian children are dying because Palestinian leaders continue to perpetuate conditions that encourage ongoing conflict with Israel.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Lets see
1. Israeli civilians killed by terrorism
2. Israeli soldiers killed in the territories
3. Financial cost of occupation
4. Reduced trade and investment, leading to current recession in Israeli economy


Yup, I see plenty of incentive, assuming peace would end all of the above. And i cant see how a real peace wouldnt.

As has already been mentioned, the American aid packages, both the direct aid and cheap loans, constitute an incentive to keep the conflict going. Unless either America promises to give Israel money regardless, or stops giving Israel money, period.

The conflict also makes it much easier to justify and facilitate the expansion of settlements, thanks to 'security' measures.

I see plenty of incentive to keep the conflict going. Especially for a settlement-obsessed nut like Sharon.

As to who represents the Pals, I think the Hamas leadership, at least, should be part of any such peace talks. Arafat cannot make a deal without Hamas approvoal/support.

Yes. It makes sense to negotiate with one's enemy, as opposed to an impotent middleman.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Excuse me, when you said "dissidents" I thought you meant Israeli peace activists. I cant imagine calling a terror bomber a "dissident".

And how do bombers not qualify as "dissidents?" That's exactly what they are. You can call them whatever, but my word is certainly accurate.

But I'm not sure how you could think I was referring to anyone other than the Palestinians!

[MrFun]

Yeah sure -- and those who slammed the planes into the World Trade Center were not terrorists -- they were dissidents.


What bunch of wishy-washy BS -- call them for what they really are!!!!!!!

[Boris Godunov]

Accusations of wishy-washiness from the guy who has to qualify any political statement he makes with "I'M A MODERATE!!! I'M A MODERATE!!! I'M A MODERATE!!!"

Please.

Where did I say they weren't terrorists, MrFun? I'd like a citation of that. I'll trot out one of your favorite words, but I'll actually use it correctly: STRAWMAN!

Funny how people aren't focusing on the substance of what I posited, but rather jumping on a single, irrelevant word. Yet someone accused me of being PC?

[MrFun]

So they're dissidents AND terrorist according to your argument.

That doesn't give any stronger justification for suicide bombings.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun
So they're dissidents AND terrorist according to your argument.

Yeeeees. I stated as such in my response to lord of the mark. I also pointed out in my posts how they were bombing people. So it's not like I was somehow shirking away from or being dishonest about their actions.

That doesn't give any stronger justification for suicide bombings.

Did I say it did? I don't recall trying to justify anybody bombing anything.

[MrFun]

So you're point with the claim that they're both, dissidents and terrorists is . . . . . . . .?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun
So you're point with the claim that they're both, dissidents and terrorists is . . . . . . . .?

What on earth are you talking about? There's no "point," it's a simple matter of word definitions! I used the word "dissident" because it is accurate. I wasn't the one who started harping about word choice! This entire thing arose because LotM had a nitpick.

Jesus Christ, Apolyton remains a place of almost interminable frustration...