Israel -- "Wants Peace" eh?

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So disrupting Israeli commerce and making the situation unbearable for business would be the most effective way to bring real pressure on the government to resolve the issue quickly.

War is bad for (most) business.

OK, so when the terrorists plan to target school children that puts immense pressure on the bussiness's. I guess you can just call that fiscally irresponsible or maybe fiscal collateral damage. I don't know how much that means to mother looking at her 3 year old ripped in half, but I am sure you have a political correct answer for that.

[rah]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
What are the Israeli actions that cause the misery - primarily check points, limits on work in Israel. Which are directly related to security.

When it takes up to hours to get through a check point, hours of employment get decreased. Some are denied access and not able to work at all.

The bulldozing of homes is an obvious one. (some is justified, but they do seem to be over zelous at times.

The wall is seperating people from the jobs.

Curfews and limited access or delayed access for emergency vehicles is a hardship.

Land confiscated for building new settlements.

The distribution of resources, water power has been restricted at times.

Colateral Damage on IDF strikes.

The list goes on and on.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Yet war is very beneficial to any given army's budgets and standing and the interntional arms industries. Also Israel gets the highest financial aid from the US. 10 bil. dollars was the latest IIRC so it has other sources of income as well.

Israels army would much rather be spending on weaponry to counter possible threats from Iran, not primarily personnel cost for patrols in the territories. A number of Israeli ex-military officials have criticed Sharon, and I think most of those who havent would still like to minimize costs.

Re Arms industy - Israels arms industry is prospering from sales abroad, to India and China among others. Patrols in the territories dont help them much.

Re aid - they get $3 billion a year, not $10 billion. The same amount theyve gotten for the last 23 years, gradually diminishing in real value.

The Israeli economy is much more reliant on trade, primarily in civilian high technology than aid. Az?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
It already is. The post that israel has no incentive for peace was totally incorrect.

I agree saying there isn't an incentive is correct, but I disagree with fiscal disruption is already the focus of dissidents. This is clearly not the case, as the bombing targets show. They're out for emotional targets that hit people in the heart. This only makes people angry and more stubbornly resolute.

If the hit was primarily to the pocket book, things would be different. Instead of bombing people, bomb roads, rails and other transport networks. Hit power stations and communications networks. Having squads running around creating havoc in this regard would avoid the negative press for the Palestinians killing people while serving to make the Israeli citizen (and, more importantly, corporations) eager for a peaceful resolution.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Defiant
OK, so when the terrorists plan to target school children that puts immense pressure on the bussiness's. I guess you can just call that fiscally irresponsible or maybe fiscal collateral damage. I don't know how much that means to mother looking at her 3 year old ripped in half, but I am sure you have a political correct answer for that.

I don't think you have any comprehension of what I said. Please reread.

[Bereta_Eder]

Actually the latest aid is 10 billion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2867619.stm

[Bereta_Eder]

The confirmation is here.


U.S. administration approves US$10 billion in guarantees, aid to Israel
Thu Mar 20, 7:06 AM ET

By LAURIE COPANS, Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM - The Bush Administration has approved US$9 billion in loan guarantees and US$1 billion in special military assistance to Israel, Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (news - web sites)'s office said Thursday. The decision was condemned by the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites).



In Washington, a senior official said the aid request would go to Congress, which must still approve it, in a few days. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, would not discuss amounts. Israeli media said approval was expected.


Israel had requested $8 billion in loan guarantees and $4 billion in aid to offset the costs of conflict with the Palestinians and preparations for a feared attack by Iraq (news - web sites) in response to the U.S. campaign against it. In the first Gulf War (news - web sites) Iraq hit Israel with 39 missiles, causing heavy damage but few casualties.


Israel, already the largest recipient of U.S. aid, receives US$2.7 billion in U.S. aid — US$2.1 billion in military aid and US$600 million in economic aid.


Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said that "the Palestinian Authority condemns the U.S. decision to grant Israel loan guarantees at this particular time, because we think that Israel will use this money to continue its settlement policy and its terrorist acts against the Palestinian people."


In almost 30 months of violence, 2,225 people have been killed on the Palestinian side and 753 on the Israeli side. Palestinians fear Israel might exploit the Iraq war to ratchet up military strikes, while Israel fears militant groups could increase terror attacks in a show of support for Iraq.


Netanyahu's office said U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) called Netanyahu Wednesday to inform him of the decision. She told him the administration decided to give Israel US$1 billion more in loan guarantees than requested because it was impressed with his recently unveiled economic plan, the statement said. The plan slashes budgets and entitlements but also promises to reduce income tax.


Netanyahu asked Rice to transfer the military assistance as soon as possible, his office said.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Defiant
I don't know how much that means to mother looking at her 3 year old ripped in half, but I am sure you have a political correct answer for that.

Why is it that people like you have all this compassion for the children of one side, but the far more likely to be killed children of the other side aren't worth mentioning? More Palestinian children die than Israeli children.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by paiktis22
The confirmation is here.


U.S. administration approves US$10 billion in guarantees, aid to Israel
Thu Mar 20, 7:06 AM ET

By LAURIE COPANS, Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM - The Bush Administration has approved US$9 billion in loan guarantees and US$1 billion in special military assistance to Israel, Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (news - web sites)'s office said Thursday. The decision was condemned by the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites).



In Washington, a senior official said the aid request would go to Congress, which must still approve it, in a few days. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, would not discuss amounts. Israeli media said approval was expected.


Israel had requested $8 billion in loan guarantees and $4 billion in aid to offset the costs of conflict with the Palestinians and preparations for a feared attack by Iraq (news - web sites) in response to the U.S. campaign against it. In the first Gulf War (news - web sites) Iraq hit Israel with 39 missiles, causing heavy damage but few casualties.


Israel, already the largest recipient of U.S. aid, receives US$2.7 billion in U.S. aid — US$2.1 billion in military aid and US$600 million in economic aid.


Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said that "the Palestinian Authority condemns the U.S. decision to grant Israel loan guarantees at this particular time, because we think that Israel will use this money to continue its settlement policy and its terrorist acts against the Palestinian people."


In almost 30 months of violence, 2,225 people have been killed on the Palestinian side and 753 on the Israeli side. Palestinians fear Israel might exploit the Iraq war to ratchet up military strikes, while Israel fears militant groups could increase terror attacks in a show of support for Iraq.


Netanyahu's office said U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) called Netanyahu Wednesday to inform him of the decision. She told him the administration decided to give Israel US$1 billion more in loan guarantees than requested because it was impressed with his recently unveiled economic plan, the statement said. The plan slashes budgets and entitlements but also promises to reduce income tax.


Netanyahu asked Rice to transfer the military assistance as soon as possible, his office said.

first of all thats a one-off to help with the current crisis, not regular assistance as you implied. And 9 billion is loan guarantees, which are not worth $9 billion in cash by any means. They lower the cost of borrowing, but the implication that this is an alternative source of income is incorrect.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Why is it that people like you have all this compassion for the children of one side, but the far more likely to be killed children of the other side aren't worth mentioning? More Palestinian children die than Israeli children.

The death of Palestinian children is one of the great crimes of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


I agree saying there isn't an incentive is correct, but I disagree with fiscal disruption is already the focus of dissidents. This is clearly not the case, as the bombing targets show. They're out for emotional targets that hit people in the heart. This only makes people angry and more stubbornly resolute.

Excuse me, when you said "dissidents" I thought you meant Israeli peace activists. I cant imagine calling a terror bomber a "dissident".

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
the implication that this is an alternative source of income is incorrect.

Why?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by paiktis22


Why?

Ok, Paktis, you walk into a bank in Athens to borrow some money. Say a thousand euros. I agree to cosign to lower your interest costs . You now have a thousand euros, and a debt for a thousand euros, though a somewhat lower interest payment than you otherwise would have had. Do you have a thousand euros of additional INCOME? No.

[Bereta_Eder]

I was talking about the aid and annual no less, not the additional guaranteed loans, although that can be deemed an aid although of course not other peoples' money.

(And what would I do with a 1000 euros? pfft )

[Ned]

I wonder what happens if the US endorses the "peace plan?" Should Bush pull a Carter/Clinton and convene the Israeli and Palestinian leadership to talk Turkey?

As to who represents the Pals, I think the Hamas leadership, at least, should be part of any such peace talks. Arafat cannot make a deal without Hamas approvoal/support.