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  • Israel -- "Wants Peace" eh?

    This is in reply to Zevico's PA thread...

    Israel steps up West Bank raids (by the BBC)

    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


    Israel has arrested some 30 Palestinian militants in a series of raids on the eve of talks in Egypt aimed at securing a new truce from Palestinian groups.

    Seventeen members of Islamic Jihad were arrested in Jenin, and other militants were held after raids in Ramallah, Israeli army sources said.

    The news comes amid a row between the US and Israel over the unofficial Geneva peace plan for the Middle East.

    Palestinian officials said the raids could prompt a new cycle of violence.

    Israel defended the renewed military operations, saying they had pre-empted a fresh wave of suicide attacks.

    Three Hamas militants and a Palestinian boy of six were killed by Israeli forces in Ramallah on Monday, hours before the alternative peace deal took the international stage in Geneva.

    On Tuesday, the plan was overshadowed by more violence, as Israeli troops shot dead two Palestinians in the West Bank.

    'New settlements'

    The Israeli Government is reported to have approved the construction of more than 1,720 new houses in Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip this year.

    The Washington Post newspaper quoted critics of the expansion, who said it had undercut a freeze on settlement building set out in the roadmap peace plan.

    Meanwhile, Palestinian militant groups - including Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement - are in Cairo for talks aimed at securing a new Palestinian ceasefire offer.

    The official opening of the talks has been delayed until Thursday, when Hamas and Islamic Jihad plan to join the meeting.

    Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei hopes to present a truce offer to Israel - a key step in reviving the US-backed roadmap.

    But, with the roadmap apparently derailed, the emergence of the Geneva plan has sparked a rare public dispute between Israel and the US.

    US rebuked

    US Secretary of State Colin Powell has said he intends to meet the authors of the unofficial peace plan, despite opposition from Israel.

    He was responding to a rebuke by Israel's deputy prime minister, who said such a move would be a "mistake".

    The new plan, launched by Israeli and Palestinian political figures, calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state, and the dismantling of most Jewish settlements.

    It grants Israel the right to decide how many Palestinian refugees can return to Israel.

    The US State Department said Mr Powell was expected to meet the accord's chief authors - former Israeli Justice Minister Yossi Beilin and former Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo - in Washington on Friday.
    Could some rational and thoughtful person please tell me that Israel isn't seemingly doing everything in it's power to provoke the Palestinians into a violent response and further derail the peace process!!!

    There haven't been any suicide bombings for months (and those were immediately after unprovoked Israeli incursions!) and yet the Israelis strike at the very moment two separate peace initiatives are being held!

    On top of that, they are expanding the illegal settlements and continuing with the wall, their latest land grab scheme!

    And what of the US, they stand by while all this happens and actually get told off by Israel for wanting to meet the recent Geneva Accord members, who seem to have come up with what seems to be a reasonable plan...

    The sheer bare-faced nature of Israel's actions beggars belief - surely no one can tell me with a straight face that the Israeli govt actually wants peace...?

    Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

  • #2
    I agree with you in theory, but the example you've posted isnt' all that egregious. Killinhg the six-year old boy was bad, but he probably would have grown up to be a terrorist, so it's best to kill him now.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • #3
      You got to be ****ing kidding me. "to provoke the palestinians into a viloent response"? as if the palestinians haven't been violently "responding" in the last weeks? Of course, you haven't heard of shooting, and infiltration that occur daily, but as long as it don't get dozens killed, I guess it just doesn't make the news.


      ****ing hillarious. I wonder why didn't you post the same thread when the El Aqsa martyrs killed twenty, ending the hudna.....
      urgh.NSFW

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      • #4
        As long as a majority of people vote for Sharon (those actualy allowed to vote ) I doubt the Israeli goverment is interested in peace...........

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        • #5
          Some Palestinian leaders say they denounce terrorism, then they do not do anything to stop Palestinian suicide bombers.
          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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          • #6
            Some American leaders say they denounce murder, then they do not do anything to stop murderers before they kill.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • #7
              "There haven't been any suicide bombings for months (and those were immediately after unprovoked Israeli incursions!) "


              Have you considered the possibility that the dropoff in bombings was CAUSED by the incursions? If incursions were followed by bombins, youd be saying how the incursions only lead to a cycle of violence - so shouldnt you say the opposite now, or is your position unfalsifiable?

              This is not to say that Sharon may not be trying stop the Geneva process. But as long as the PA isnt cracking down on Hamas, Israel has every right to do so. And imran, the problem isnt that the PA is ineffective in cracking down on Hamas - its that its not even trying, and Qurei, like Abu Mazen, wont even say hes trying.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.†Martin Buber

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              • #8
                Re: Israel -- "Wants Peace" eh?

                Originally posted by MOBIUS
                Could some rational and thoughtful person please tell me that Israel isn't seemingly doing everything in it's power to provoke the Palestinians into a violent response and further derail the peace process!!!
                Israel defended the renewed military operations, saying they had pre-empted a fresh wave of suicide attacks.
                So they just should have let the suicide attacks go on right?

                Meanwhile, Palestinian militant groups - including Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement - are in Cairo for talks aimed at securing a new Palestinian ceasefire offer.
                So the Pals aren't recognizing any cease fire right now and were preparing to Israel on the eve of offering a ceasefire...sounds like their SOP.

                Wouldn't the rational person realize that the road map, which was agreed to by the Pals, calls for disarmamnet of the terrorist groups? Wouldn't the rational person recognize that preparing suicide strikes is the real impediment to peace right now? Wouldn't the rational person recognize the fact that any government would strike preemptively at terrorist about to kill their citizens? Wouldn't a rational person quit judging Israel by a different standard?

                Good Lord! If the Pals want peace, the DISARM THE TERRORIST! Israel has said that everything is negotiable then.
                "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                • #9
                  They can never disarm the terrorists or even try, they want Israel out of business, permantly. Any stalling or other practice that looks good on the surface for peace is nothing more than a stall tactic by the PAL to re-group or plan other hits on Israeli children and others.

                  If I was Israel, build the wall, put turrets on top and if a suspicious person walks within 100 yards, flame them.

                  The only way Pals can win this is totally disarm the terrorists and become the true victum and then present your case to the UN and then the USA would have to react on the side of Pals, for the simple reason Americans hate watching chidren die on television if "truly" unprovoked, retaliation doesn't count. Right now Israel gets most of the sympathy because we are seeing bus loads of children dying whether Sharon is right or wrong, they are getting our support.
                  Last edited by Defiant; December 3, 2003, 15:23.
                  Lets always remember the passangers on United Flight 93, true heroes in every sense of the word!

                  (Quick! Someone! Anyone! Sava! Come help! )-mrmitchell

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Defiant
                    They can never disarm the terrorists or even try, they want Israel out of business, permantly.
                    This is the crux of the issue.
                    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                    • #11
                      Well I guess Isreal should only do something AFTER a school bus is blown all to hell. Wouldn't want to offend anyone here.
                      Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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                      • #12
                        Agreed, the Pals will have my sympathy when I'm convinced they actually want peace instead of the total destruction of Israel.

                        My support for the other side has dropped considerably the last few years, but it will take considerable effort by the Pals towards a peacefull resolution before I will stop my support of Israel.

                        Both leaders have to go. But I doubt it will make any difference.
                        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                        • #13
                          Other than the wierd part about them being stupid enough to say something against Powell visiting someone, I faill to see what about the BBC article got you in an uproar. I suggest increasing your fiber intake.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rah
                            Agreed, the Pals will have my sympathy when I'm convinced they actually want peace instead of the total destruction of Israel.

                            I love you.


                            Well ok, I don't -- but SOMEONE other than a far-left extremist who understands my viewpoint.
                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                            • #15
                              It's a little weird because I used to be a diehard Israeli supporter. But after being here a few years, I have questioned my commitment. There are two sides, and they both seem to have problems. Score one for Apolyton. Yes, I am not far-left.
                              It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                              RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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