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It isn't. The last word, unfortunately, still rests with the national governments through the council of ministers. So everything that happens has, at least, the consent of all the respective governments. As for the UK it's like a person standing with his legs in two different boats.
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It's a neat trick that I didn't really think could be done but it's been amusing seeing them tick the smaller countries off with thier flagrant violations of a pact they shoved through themselves.Originally posted by Azazel
France and Germany are stopping themselves?
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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Funny I thought the Pact of Stability and Growth was unanimously agreed, as was the freeze of penalties against France and Germany, with the abstention of the vote only from Spain. Since things still rest with the national governments and they could overule the Commission, as I was saying.Comment
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So if you want to complainm (perfectly understandable.. lol in a way) do so at your national governments who voted in favor of the freeze ofpenalties overuling the commission. And that goes for the brits too those who complain about unfairness anyway lol your own government voted in favor of the freeze of penalties against france and germany, in case you didnt know
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Yeah, well, I don't see how can this be more than a bump on the road. I'd say that the unification of europe is ... a historical inevitability.Originally posted by DinoDoc
It's a neat trick that I didn't really think could be done but it's been amusing seeing them tick the smaller countries off with thier flagrant violations of a pact they shoved through themselves.Comment
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I think that if people would have to choose between Pekka's sick form of populist nationalism and a technocratic EU, most would sadly choose the former. That is nationalism unbound.
However, the fact is that no nation has any policies forced upon them by the EU. England has chosen to stay on the sideline placating the hooligans and the capitalists, by not adopting social policies and workers rights which would overturn the Thatcher 'revolution'.
Denmark has chosen to stand outside in areas of immigration amongst others, because its policies has been hijacked by xenophobic monarchists.
Both have chosen to stay out of the Euro.
Hence to portray the EU as a dictatorship forcing its decisions on small or weak nations is manifestly wrong. And the ideology behind such a portrayal is horrible.
I agree that France and Germany has acted in a heavyhanded fashion. However it remains to be seen whether the deficit is going to be used on bolstering consumption, or, in fact, it is to be used to further strengten the economic base of Europe. I think the latter, until it is proven otherwise.Comment
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Nice to see an intra-squad Euro flame fest
Hey, it's not too late to stick with your REAL friends, the good ole USA
USA loves Europe and Germany and UK were favorites
But now Germany listens to France
USA hates France
So big no-no GermanyWe the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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It's all fine, Mr Striker. Don't talk about things you don't understand. Now go train for those pesky landings.
As for the stability pact, apart from being quite useless, it always had a few backdoors and a rather nice margin of appreciation for the Council. France and Germany played that margin and won.
That Franco-german domination of the EU story is just bull****. If they don't convince the others, they get nothing done, just look at the voting weights in the Council.
What I also find funny... our anglosaxon friends *****ed and whined about how silly it was to impose the rigid stability pact - just that it never was rigid. Now they ***** and whine that we handle it flexibly because someone broke it - when it wasn't broken. This hatred against continental Europe is really getting bizarre.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Well Germany and France are doing a damn good job of giving people reasons to hate them
I don't know what this obsession is with becoming reassertive, but it's not only alienating France and Germany from former friends, it's becoming counterproductive
Go with the flow man. There are better ways of having a different viewpoint without busting down beneficial political ties
And they complain Bush is abrasiveWe the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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not bloody likely.Originally posted by Azazel
Yeah, well, I don't see how can this be more than a bump on the road. I'd say that the unification of europe is ... a historical inevitability.
"The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.
"The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de BottonComment
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Would Portugal have gotten the same breaks France or even Germany got if they were in the same situation?Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Now they ***** and whine that we handle it flexibly because someone broke it - when it wasn't broken. This hatred against continental Europe is really getting bizarre.
PS The facts are against you on the question of if the pact was broken or not. But why let those get in the way of a good rant.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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What are you babbling about?Originally posted by Ted Striker
Go with the flow man. There are better ways of having a different viewpoint without busting down beneficial political ties
And they complain Bush is abrasive“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Ad 1. Most likely not. Would Britain, Spain and Italy have gotten the same "breaks"? Most likely yes.Originally posted by DinoDoc
Would Portugal have gotten the same breaks France or even Germany got if they were in the same situation?
PS The facts are against you on the question of if the pact was broken or not. But why let those get in the way of a good rant.
Ad 2. Please present those facts.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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That flow is going to hell.Originally posted by Ted Striker
Go with the flow man.Comment
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