The Joy of being a European...

[Gangerolf]

I fail to see how Europe being united will make it "great". Take a look at history: it was the competition between the nations that led to Europeans and not e.g. the Chinese (who were unified) dominating the world.

[Az]

Who told you that the chinese were unified?

[Pekka]

Who told you Europe is unified, or even close being unified?

[Az]

I didn't say they were. I was answering Gangerolf claim that the europeans beat the chinese in the game of civilization because they were fractured, by saying that the chinese weren't all that united, either.

[Pekka]

Azazel, of course you didn't say that. My mistake... damn it.

[Bereta_Eder]

Have you read Asimov's Galactic Federation? Well ok I haven't, I got too bored after the 2 first books but remember the all encompassing future predicting sociomathematic applied theory that guy had developed? What happens in Europe is the result of social ecnomic and political changes as history evolves. The era of nations is breathing its final breathes and the era of supranational entities is being born through the ashes of old nations (= as an administrative way of handling things, not culturally). Go with the flow. I myself think it can be good but whatever you think it is almost cenrtaintly unescapable.

[Gangerolf]

Heard of Zheng He? The Chinese explorer who visited India and Africa etc? China had all the right people and resources to colonise the world. But they didn't, because in the early 15th century the rulers banned exploration. It was considered improper to leave the country in one's parents lifetime, and besides the barbarians had little to offer the Middle Kingdom.

Christopher Columbus could just go to the Spanish monarch for funding after the Portuguese didn't want to hear about his crazy ideas.

[Gangerolf]

Sure the Chinese have been fractured at times, but nothing close to Europe.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Azazel
Who will stop them?

The French and Germans seem to be trying thier damndest to do just that.

[Bereta_Eder]

And still they don't suceed

[Bereta_Eder]

Gangerolf, if Europe doesn't unite it couldn't compete so, in a way, it remains true to its history. Although I doubt that competition is really what this is all about. It's about many other things maybe competition maybe not so much.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Pekka
But sure, I'm all for the great EU, but only if it's great. IMO this way it's going to suck big time in the long run.

IMHO you could do much more so that whatever is being created is affected by what you want too by participating or opposing whatever is the case but not by remaining in apathy. I'm not talking about you but generally. Getting involved with whatever, certaintly adds a small pebble (is this the word?) to the world you want, nommater how corny that sounds it's the honest truth.

[Bereta_Eder]

Here it must be added that talk about an Arab Union as well as other supranational unions in other parts of the world have emerged after the European Union. I see it clearly... supranational entities... is the way forward... to a fully peacefull prosperus advanced world *paiktis falls in a trance*

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And people wonder why the UK refuses to join the Euro at the moment!

Exactly what I thought. Funny that those who said the EU was just dominated by France and Germany were right all along.

Everyone knew that, some of us thought that it should be dominated by France Germany and the UK.

[Az]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
The French and Germans seem to be trying thier damndest to do just that.

France and Germany are stopping themselves?