New explosions in Istanbul!

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Correction:
I think there are a lot of other muslim countries which are secular.

But they're the only really laicist state.

[General Ludd]

Let's declare war on bombs. That should make both sides happy.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Correction:
I think there are a lot of other muslim countries which are secular.
The people of Turkey were not very friendly towards Israel's policies and I think they feel uncomfortable with the alliance with Israel as was demonstrated when the Sharon government issued the (unfulfilled) plan to exhile or kill Arafat. Actually both the Turkish and Greek Foreign ministers together in joined action acted as mediators on that instant.

I probably should have said "secular and nominally democratic," but I think the point holds; the rest of the Muslim world is overtly Islamicist, actively anti-democratic, or both.

And I think the Turks hate Sharon, but until he took charge they were okay with the Israel alliance -- if only because Turks really, really hate Arabs. The enemy of my enemy...

But the larger issue is that Turkey cast its lot with the West in 1923 and never looked back; this is the price they're paying.

[Buck Birdseed]

My parents are in Istanbul at the moment, flying home tonight. Hope they're okay.

[Bereta_Eder]

My sympathies Buck

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


I probably should have said "secular and nominally democratic," but I think the point holds; the rest of the Muslim world is overtly Islamicist, actively anti-democratic, or both.

Is Egypt or many of the northern African muslims states anti-democratic and not secular?

And I think the Turks hate Sharon, but until he took charge they were okay with the Israel alliance -- if only because Turks really, really hate Arabs. The enemy of my enemy...

I see.

But the larger issue is that Turkey cast its lot with the West in 1923 and never looked back; this is the price they're paying.

They also had enormous benefits.

[Sandman]

I expect most of the victims were Muslim, as has been the case for many of the recent attacks. When Al-Qaeda finally dies off, it will probably have taken the lives of many more Muslims. Their death throes, almost.

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by atawa


The number of terrorists would decline as most terrorism is the direct result of wars, but the only way to defend yourself actively against terrorism is getting your name of the targetlist, something you wont achieve by invading country's.

The only way to get your name off the target list is to give into their demands. That's not acceptable.

[Solly]

Gosh, this hit them hard.

I hope your parents get home ok BB. And good luck to Rufus tomorrow.

I'm at the moment considering my position on the "War on Terrorism". It certainly seems terrorism has increased in the last year; is this because of US- and-UK led action to defeat it, or despite it? Hmmm.

[Pekka]

Buck, I hope they are ok. The odds for them not being ok except maybe shock is very very extremely low..I'm almost sure they're just fine... You'll hear from them soon. Is there any number you can reach them from? Hotel number, cell phone?

ANyway, I just saw the news images, aerial ones. Oh gosh that was a BIG one. I hope everyone can recover from that.

[Ramo]

I probably should have said "secular and nominally democratic," but I think the point holds; the rest of the Muslim world is overtly Islamicist, actively anti-democratic, or both.

Not really. For instance, Bangladesh and Indonesia (which actually are both much larger than Turkey) are both secular and nominally democratic.

'Course, I wouldn't really say they're democratic, but then again I wouldn't call Turkey democratic either.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The diplomat
I don't understand pacifism. How can anyone still be a pacifist after these kind of terrorist attacks?

Aren't you a Christian or something?

[GePap]

Only The Diplomat could go fromt his thread to a denounciation of Pacificsm...take it up with Ben.

While it seems clear why turkey is an obvious target for Al Qaeda, I don;t see this gaining a zip of sympathy. The fact is that while they are trying to paint these as strikes vs. Westerners and Jews in Turkey, most dead are Turks, and the Turkish public in general will back the government against Al Qaeda, and in most Arab lands, or non-Arab Muslim lands these attacks don;t have the "appeal" of attacks against the uS, specially in the US.

So while these attacks show we are far from victory in the war vs Al Qaeda (planning 2 double attacks in just a few days takes real planning), the targets being hit don't build much public support foir thier cause anywhere. Just in terms of PR for Al Qaeda, they would be more successful going after the Iraq occupation.

[Lord Merciless]

They do go after the occupation in Iraq, through the bombings of UN, Red Cross(Crescent), and Shia clerics.

[GePap]

They could spend more there.

These attacks undermine whatever suppor they get from those, at least in large portions of the muslim word.