New explosions in Istanbul!

[atawa]

Edit: CT beat me to it.

[MikeH]

What's pacifism got to do with it? Who should we start a war with to stop terrorism? There have been plenty of British and US terrorists in the last 5 years do we have to invade ourselves?

I'm not a pacifist anyway, I just don't think that tanks in the desert helps stop the four guys in a flat in Istanbul from driving a van into a consulate.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Because war is probably why these attacks happend in the first place.
Violence promotes violence. Continue the cycle and it never ends, obviously.

But what if I never started a war, never hurt anyone, never provoked anyone, and some terrorist groups comes around and starts the violence? Should I still not even defend myself and let the terrorist continue to kill over and over again?

[MikeH]

I didn't realise not starting a war meant you couldn't defend yourself from terrorism.

[atawa]

Originally posted by The diplomat


But what if I never started a war, never hurt anyone, never provoked anyone, and some terrorist groups comes around and starts the violence? Should I still not even defend myself and let the terrorist continue to kill over and over again?

The number of terrorists would decline as most terrorism is the direct result of wars, but the only way to defend yourself actively against terrorism is getting your name of the targetlist, something you wont achieve by invading country's.

[DanS]

This really bites.

As for the roots of terrorism, I don't think you can classify it so clearly. Most wars do not result in terrorism after the fact, for instance. Some might.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Because war is probably why these attacks happend in the first place.
Violence promotes violence. Continue the cycle and it never ends, obviously.

Well, although I agree with the principle here, I believe even if Israel withdrew from the West Bank or US from Iraq tomorrow, these AQ people or all the likeminded scum would still go on operating, making attacks and so on...

What I mean is, they really are not interested in any sort of compromise or accomodation...They want to impose their version of religion on the Muslim world first, and then take on the rest of the world, period...If it sounds incredulous, that's unfortunately still what they are up to, in 10, 100 or 1000 years...This is their awful mindset...

The injustices the Muslims are suffering in the world in their perception is their starting point, but their "rightful" solutions wouldn't be their endpoint...

Acknowledging this nature of the state of events would still not necessarily force anybody to agree with the tactics of the "war on terror". Still, the fact remains that although we can discuss in depth whether the invasion of Iraq was right or wrong, reality now on the ground would require an understanding that withdrawing now in the wrong way and in the wrong time would make many things go wrong, like encouraging these people about the inevitability of their "vision of the world"...

[Solver]

Saw that on Pro Sieben three hours ago, I think. I first thought "Is it September 11th they're showing for some reason?" Then the image of bank building appeared, and I realised it wasn't New York...

My condolences to all the victims and their families .

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by atawa
but the only way to defend yourself actively against terrorism is getting your name of the targetlist, something you wont achieve by invading country's.

I wasn't aware that Turkey was on the target list. Remember that they refused to help the US during the Iraq war. Yet they still got blown up today. So, your theory does not hold!

[Bereta_Eder]

I don't think that was his theory.

[Lord Merciless]

The message should be: Muslimes won't get their due respect through the use of terrorism. Actually, nobody should achieve their goals through terrorism. Those who try should get thouroughly thrashed, by force.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by The diplomat


I wasn't aware that Turkey was on the target list. Remember that they refused to help the US during the Iraq war. Yet they still got blown up today. So, your theory does not hold!

Well, remember that Turkey just did vote to commit troops to Iraq; the Iraqi's turned them down, but Turkey's in. Turkey's on the list, I suspect, because
1) They're the only Muslim country that's fully secular -- indeed, aggressively anti-Islamicist
2) They're the only Muslim ally of Israel
3) They're the only Muslim country in NATO
4) They're the only Muslim candidate for the EU

In short, they're the only Muslim country that has cast its lot with the West instead of the Muslim world. That makes them a particular thorn in the side of Muslim fundy nutjobs.

[Bereta_Eder]

Correction:
I think there are a lot of other muslim countries which are secular.
The people of Turkey were not very friendly towards Israel's policies and I think they feel uncomfortable with the alliance with Israel as was demonstrated when the Sharon government issued the (unfulfilled) plan to exhile or kill Arafat. Actually both the Turkish and Greek Foreign ministers together in joined action acted as mediators on that instant.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by MikeH
I didn't realise not starting a war meant you couldn't defend yourself from terrorism.

So you'd rather we used large numbers of clandestine forces to kill anything that looked like a terrorist rather than use the military?

Great

I always agreed with unleashing the SAS to do 'as they will' during the bad days of 'the troubles'

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by The diplomat
I wasn't aware that Turkey was on the target list. Remember that they refused to help the US during the Iraq war. Yet they still got blown up today. So, your theory does not hold!

Turkey is a secular state with muslim population and American ally. That's enough to be well up there on the target list. Plus there are small domestic extremist groups there, who are even more pissed since Prime Minister Erdogan finally acts consitent with the secular doctrine and not pushing an islamistic agenda. Domestic groups make it way easier to perform attacks.
Remember, it was Al-Qaeda and not Iraqi terror. Though Al-Q has declared all nations who participated in the war enemies, they never forgot those they already had (=the Saud, secular mulsim nations, also Saddam before, though Bush &Co. always tapped their ears singing lalalalala when someone mentioned that.)