**** you too, God.

[Arrian]

what I view to be the "perfect relationship" (something based on my philosophy and logic, and would take too long for me to describe here).

Oh dear. You may be in for serious disappointment. In my experience, there is very little "philosophy and logic" involved in relationships. Love doesn't really work that way. I don't really know how it works, but it sure as **** ain't logical.

Good luck nonetheless.

-Arrian

[Spec]

She's a lesbian.


Spec.

[Bosh]

what I view to be the "perfect relationship" (something based on my philosophy and logic

Oh god, the less you involve philosophy and logic and relationships the better.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Spec
She's a lesbian.


Spec.

Not quite. But for awhile she was so disgusted with boys that she'd only mess around with girls.

Boshko and Arrian: This logic of mine isn't talking about love, it's talking about something that happens to do with love, that's all. And I know most people find this opinion of mine abhorrent, but without me going into a lengthy exposition about my thoughts on practically everything, it's not worth it to try to defend my stance. I'll just say that it is unlikely that you will alter how I think on this one.

[Urban Ranger]

No guts, no glory.

[Spec]

Dude, there is no such thing as "Not quite" when it comes to this. And, from what I read, she is, imo. But of course, I dont know her personaly.

Spec.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Arrian


Oh dear. You may be in for serious disappointment. In my experience, there is very little "philosophy and logic" involved in relationships. Love doesn't really work that way. I don't really know how it works, but it sure as **** ain't logical.

Good luck nonetheless.

-Arrian

I pride myself on my philosophy and logic. Need I say more

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Spec
Dude, there is no such thing as "Not quite" when it comes to this. And, from what I read, she is, imo. But of course, I dont know her personaly.

Spec.

Ever heard of bisexual people? And no, you don't know her personally. I don't want to sound egotistical or arrogant, but I know her better than anyone else in the world does. Likewise, she knows me better than anyone else in the world. She knows me better than I know myself, sometimes.

This thread wasn't asking for advice on what I should do with my bestfriend, because there's no person in the world that knows better how to interact with her than I do. This thread was just me being angry at the fact that, despite the truth of everything I have just said, we still can't be together.

[Richelieu]

My 2 cents: if you don't go for it, the only thing you can be certain about is that you will never know for sure.
And you will always wonder whether you missed out on the best thing that could ever have happened to you.

[st_swithin]

I thought that guys never had female friends - just girls they haven't managed to fvck...yet. ;P

But seriously, if you're that anxious to start a physical, romantic relationship with your BEST FRIEND, I'd reassess that friendship, because it obviously doesn't mean as much to you anymore. You've stated that all her relationships have ended, at best, poorly. Yet you think you're going to be different.

My best friend is a guy, and the only reason we're still best friends is because we've had the same conversation - great, he loves me, I'm the girl he's just realised he's always needed, blah blah blah.

Well, we had to get over it, and thankfully, we did. We need our friends more than another potential ex. Romance is very good way to louse up a great friendship. Finding people to be intimate with - they're a dime a dozen. Some of 'em even make a career of it. Finding people you can really communicate with and understand - I can count the ones I know on my hands.

[Lorizael]

I hate the idea of ending a friendship to start a romance. It's a disgusting concept. You've already got this great and wonderful foundation, why lose all of that because you're suddenly adding a new dimension to the currently existing relationship?

My bestfriend and I didn't want to change our relationship. We simply wanted to give it the opportunity to move to where it should be. Previously there had been artificial barriers that we'd established to keep things from going any further. These barriers were the fact that I was with someone else, that we weren't sure what a romance would be like, and that she was too afraid to be romantically involved.

I'm no longer with anyone else, and both of us are sure that something more between us would have been right for our relationship. We both thought that our relationship could move forward. This is why she talked about it being like a natural progression of what we already had. The barriers between us are removed entirely and we're allowed to move forward.

But there's still one barrier. She's still too afraid of romance. It was always the largest barrier and we don't know if it will ever be overcome. This is why I'm not waiting for her and why I need to "get over" her. But it's tragic, in my mind.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Lorizael
I hate the idea of ending a friendship to start a romance. It's a disgusting concept. You've already got this great and wonderful foundation, why lose all of that because you're suddenly adding a new dimension to the currently existing relationship?

Enjoy your massive stumbling block. I'm busy enjoying nearly eight years of marriage to a friend.

[Lorizael]

Dude that's my point. Other people seem to think you need to end a friendship to start a romance. I don't think you need to do that.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Lorizael
I know that's what I have to do of course, but well...

Easier said than done.

Why? If she is truthful, as you suggest, in that she lies you but has issues, it's a simple choice. Get over her or give her time to get over them. If your willing to wait, then go for it, be her friend, help her through it, and you could well end up together. If you're not, then get over her.

That is presuming that she is telling the truth, which I don't know enough to tell. If you trust her, there is no reason not to wait, and try.

Originally posted by Kramerman
dude, i feel you almost exaclty. I have a VERY similar situation. I found in the end tho that she really ws saying no nicely.

If she is saying this, getting over her is a good idea. That's a big if though. Maybe she is being truthful in how she feels. Many people have issues, and want to do things they can't. It takes time, but most get over them, when they trust someone and become confortable with themselves. This seems more like the case to me, but then, you know whether it is better than I.

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You are single. She is single. You like each other. What more do you need?

Issues. If she has issues with intimacy, and he jumps in, it stops before it could get started. As she said, kissing her would have made her freak. When she has got over her issues, then go for it. But he has to be patient and considering with her until she has.

Originally posted by TCO
You guys aren't helping. Lor, dump the *****. She's leading you on.

How the hell do you know that? You've met this girl? You know she's not interested? You've never met anyone who wants something but has issues that makes them scared? I'd be inclined to believe my best friend unless I had a pretty decent reason not to. Sure, maybe you can get over someone quickly, and aren't prepared to spend time to work at a relationship. Maybe he isn't. If he wants to give up on her, and won't spend his time wondering "what if it had worked", then that's great, and move on. But if he can't, I would say don't give up on it. Sure, he may waste some time, but he won't have years wondering about if it could have happened. Personally, I would hate that.

Originally posted by TCO
Stop sniffing what you can't eat. Go find a meal.

Sure, if all he wants is sex. If he want's a relationship with her, even, as he put it, a "perfect reltionship", then that's the last thing he wants to do. Does he sound like someone ready to give up on her yet, without all the "what ifs" that come later?

Edit: Ok, maybe he is ready to give up. Disregard this then. I wish you luck.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Drogue
Edit: Ok, maybe he is ready to give up. Disregard this then. I wish you luck.

*sigh* I was willing to give up. But all the things you said make me think differently.