Did the Chinese Overreact?

[PLATO]

Historical animosity with no modern justification is usually a sign of an uneducated ill-informed populace. In this case, it is government sponsored by the PRC. Does anybody really think that the Chinese government will suddenly change if Japan said "We did it, Sorry"?

China's drive to super-power status doesn't have to go over the top of Japan, but it appears that they think it does. The Chinese would be far better served by trying to create a partnership with Japan and drive the political wedge between them and the US.

At some point you must look to the future and not the past. Bothe Japan and China would be well served by doing this.

[mindseye]

I think we can judge that their sensitivity to something which can only be construed as an 'insult' by those looking to find one is utterly silly.

I wouldn't be quite so quick to "judge" with such a flimsy understanding of the context.

As MtG pointed out, the Chinese are not only justifiably angry over the atrocities they suffered 60 years ago, but what really pushes their buttons is the current Japanese attitude that it never really happened. Ask Iris Chang ("Rape of Nanjing") about the reception of her book in Japan, or what happened in Japanese theaters a few years ago when a "controversial" film about the war appeared.

The Chinese seem quite able to "move on" from historical incidents if a little respect is shown. I have never experienced any anti-western feeling over Shanghai's colonial history, the British/French/American destruction of the Summer Palace, etc. The nations in question have acknowledged their histories, and everyone "moved on". Not so the Japanese, thus the difference - and the continued bitter feelings.

Finally, I suspect the news article does not quite accurately depict what happened during that skit, it may have been something more than "bawdy dancing". One friend of mine heard that the paper bits "pulled from underwear" were actually thrown at the audience in a characterization of an ejaculation. I have absolutely no idea what really happened, but my point is that probanly no one else here does, either.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by PLATO
Historical animosity with no modern justification

You've completely misread the situation.

What drives Chinese wild is the contemporary Japanese attitude, the attitude that the attrocities never actually took place, thus there is no need to apologize. I have heard this from many Chinese.

The prblem goes to the highest levels of the Japanese government - think of Koizumi's regular visits to the infamous war shrine, for example.

Does anybody really think that the Chinese government will suddenly change if Japan said "We did it, Sorry"?

Yeah, I think it probably would, or at least would greatly change things, assuming that the apology came from a high enough level, and was suitably sincere. Consider, the USA actively backed Chiang KaiShek in the Civil War, but Chinese don't hate Americans over it.

[David Floyd]

As MtG pointed out, the Chinese are not only justifiably angry over the atrocities they suffered 60 years ago, but what really pushes their buttons is the current Japanese attitude that it never really happened.

That is quite understandable, but what you people just don't seem to get is that it is undeniably and 100% IDIOTIC for the Chinese to react this way to a little student prank. If they DO act like this, then they are acting like a bunch of little children. Waa waa waa. The prank didn't mean anything, and no harm was done. That's why it's called a prank - if it hurt someone, it'd be a crime, and then the Chinese WOULD have a reason to get angry

MtG,

Regarding your "boy" example, again, nothing I see in the article tells me that the Japanese were insulting the Chinese, so your example still fails.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Insults are in the perception of the recipient.

[DinoDoc]

Finally, I suspect the news article does not quite accurately depict what happened during that skit

The Guardian not tell the whole story!?!? Never!

[Odin]

This doesn't suprise me, This kind of stuff seems to stem from most east asians being confucists(sp?); basically it's an "honor" thing.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by mindseye

You've completely misread the situation.

What drives Chinese wild is the contemporary Japanese attitude, the attitude that the attrocities never actually took place, thus there is no need to apologize. I have heard this from many Chinese.

The prblem goes to the highest levels of the Japanese government - think of Koizumi's regular visits to the infamous war shrine, for example.

Yasukuni jinja doesn't bug me, because it's a shrine to all war dead, not just to specific leaders or groups. What's much more odious to me (and I assume to the vast majority of Chinese) is the repeated mininimization and denial, turning into a "persecution complex" where if you bring it up now, the perpetrators are now the victims.

There is some official recognition in Japan, but it's shrugged off and minimized in terms of both the number killed, the nature of the victims (the strongest denials relate to the gang rapes and forced prostitution) and the reasons.

[Sprayber]

I guess Americans are so used to being disrespected around the world we have become desensitized by it

[MichaeltheGreat]

It's because we can kick their asses and everyone knows it, so we let them all yap and chomp at our ankles as a form of ego consolation.

[st_swithin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If you were black, and waiting on me in a restaurant, and I yelled across the place at you "Boy, fetch me another lemonade!" would you possibly get a bit "uppity?"

Like I said, if small breast and genitals were something that Japanese believed about Chinese, perhaps there would be something. But nothing like that exists.

It'd be akin to white schoolkids today prancing around in their underwear at a show attended by mostly black people. It may be a bit inappropriate, yes, but no one in their right minds would say the kids did this to insult blacks!

Actually, it'd be more akin to white schoolkids prancing around in their underwear wearing blackface makeup talking in a stereotypical 'black' manner at a show attended by mostly black people. A bit inappropriate, yes, but since we're more than 100 years removed from the declaration of the emancipation, no one in their right minds would say the kids did this to insult blacks, and any overreaction on the part of the blacks should be chalked up to propagandized hypersensitivity.

[Imran Siddiqui]

it'd be more akin to white schoolkids prancing around in their underwear wearing blackface makeup talking in a stereotypical 'black' manner at a show attended by mostly black people.

Were the Japanese kids dressed as Chinese? Were the underwear and bra done in a way to make it seem Chinese (ie, red with a star?). If so how can you compare it to white students wearing blackface? Answer is, you can't.

I have yet to see what these schoolchildren did which was an insult towards the Chinese people.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[q]I have yet to see what these schoolchildren did which was an insult towards the Chinese people.

It seems obvious that you're missing something cultural about the whole situation. I'm not aware of it either, if someone knows what the chinese are mad at, I'd like to know.


japanese and chinese are worse than white and black....

[Odin]

Unfortunatly, Japan will never admit wrongdoing in WW2 because of thier culture, Or at least that is what it seems to me bases on what I know about Japanese history and culture. The Chinese don't forgive because of their confucist background.

[Drake Tungsten]

Unfortunatly, Japan will never admit wrongdoing in WW2 because of thier culture, Or at least that is what it seems to me bases on what I know about Japanese history and culture. The Chinese don't forgive because of their confucist background.

What the **** are you talking about?