Gays are born gay, I'm convinced of it.

[Drake Tungsten]

People with 'defects' acquired, or otherwise, continue to contribute to society in ways too numerous to mention.

When did I argue otherwise? I simply said that a person with Down's Syndrome clearly has a developmental defect, even if they "contribute to society in ways too numerous to mention", as some do.

Sorry, I'm not buying the "can't procreate = defect" argument.

It's more of a "have a brain structure that is clearly different than the vast majority of the human population that leads to sexual behavior that is clearly different than the vast majority of the human population" argument. Seems like a pretty clear case of a developmental defect, if it is ever conclusively proven.

[Ramo]

Are blue eyes or left-handedness genetic defects?

[Drake Tungsten]

Are blue eyes or left-handedness genetic defects?

Yes.

[Ramo]

You have a strange definition of defect.

[Drake Tungsten]

Well, I wasn't really being serious. I certainly hope you weren't either; you must be able to see the difference between a brain structure that influences a person's reproductive behavior and a trait that has no real effect on a person's life, like blue eyes or lefthandedness.

[Ramo]

I don't see how they aren't defects according to your criteria (the norm is perfect and the abnormal is defected).

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't see how they aren't defects according to your criteria (the norm is perfect and the abnormal is defected).

That was never my criteria. According to my criteria, a defect is something that differs from the norm and also has obvious negative effects on the sufferer. Substitue blindness for blue eyes and you'll be on the right track.

[Ramo]

How does being gay have negative effects?

[Drake Tungsten]

You think not being able to reproduce is a positive effect?

[Ramo]

Gays aren't sterile, they can reproduce. And not reproducing can be a positive effect.

[Ned]

Originally posted by mindseye

I think you need to get out of your trailer more often, Ned.

Ned, I wish you could meet my wonderful mother. Despite my arguments to the contrary, she firmly believes that gay people are God's special gift to humanity! She thinks that God put gay people, with their special creative talents, on Earth to enrich the world for everyone else. I LOVE MY MOM!!!!

Ned, when you hang around exclusively in circles (online and otherwise) of nasty, vinegary, hate-mongering conservatives, the result is the hobbled mindset you often display around here. You need to get out and mix it up a bit with more enlightened, loving, tolerant people. It will make your life a bit sunnier. C'mon, give it a try! Throw open that trailer door and get out there!

Ah, c'mon. I live in gay Santa Cruz, California. I can hardly open the door to my trailer without bumping into a gay or lesbian.

But you do make a good point about the artistic contributions of gays. There is no doubt that the world would be less if we did not have the likes of Michaelangelo.

[Ned]

dp

[Az]

Originally posted by Ramo
Are blue eyes or left-handedness genetic defects?

no, of course they're not. Since they don't hamper a person from having a complete life.

Gays aren't sterile, they can reproduce.

They effectively don't. since we can all agree that homosexuality isn't a choice, they rarely will.

[/q]And not reproducing can be a positive effect.[/q]
CAN be, under very peculiar sircumstances. So is being deaf. that doesn't mean that it's generally a good thing.

[MrFun]

There are heterosexuals and homosexuals that live complete, healthy, stable lives without reproducing -- does this mean that these heterosexuals and homosexuals are defective??

no

[Az]

There are heterosexuals and homosexuals that live complete, healthy, stable lives without reproducing -- does this mean that these heterosexuals and homosexuals are defective??

I guess we differ on the definition of complete. a person who hasn't reproduced, certainly didn't live a complete life.