Gays are born gay, I'm convinced of it.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


That's just the NT

Plenty more I did not cite.

Secondly, do you have a link to those intepretations that back up your claims? All my citations are from the NIV.

Hi Ben. I know that's just the NT, but that's what Lancer asked for.

Anyway, the passages I cite are from the University of Virginia's on-line versions of the King James and Revised Standard bibles. Here are the links (I'm linking to the Tables of Contents rather than the passages themselves, because it is stupidly difficult on this site to get back to the ToC from a specific passage; so just click 1 Corinthians, etc.):

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/rsv.browse.html

[Berzerker]

Ben -

Romans 1:26-7

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "

Ben, because of what? Isn't it a bit strange for God to condemn behaviors he intentionally "gave them over to"?

Mindseye -

Man, that discussion was about two years ago, wasn't it? You still smarting over it?

It was maybe 2-3 months ago, but I have a good memory.

[Ned]

Let's for the sake of argument agree that being "gay" is genetic. We should be able to find the genes that produce the phenomenon, right?

[Ted Striker]

maybe

or a gay brain could be wired in a different way

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Spec
Jesus, imo, was a gay magician that fooled everyone.

Do you understand that this comment is offensive?

In fact I think this should be a banning offensive.

[MrFun]

Claiming that someone is gay in of itself is not offensive -- unless we know for a fact what that person's sexual orientation is.

[Drake Tungsten]

Claiming that someone is gay in of itself is not offensive

Actually, in many circles it is offensive.

[MrFun]

Yes, unfortunately for homophobes, it would be offensive.

[Theben]

Sometimes I think I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. I mean, you get to have sex with women, and play with your breasts all day! It doesn't get much better than that.

[Evil Knevil]

'Being' homosexual is much more complicated than having a single genetic difference. It's likely to be implicated with brain chemistry, hormones, womb conditions and other such things....

Even if it could be changed, why bother? The liberal -in the English sense- maxim "does it do any damage" should be applied. Why the hell do you care about gay people anyway? Does it concern you?

Jesus, imo, was a gay magician that fooled everyone.

Wouldn't that be funny? Pat Robertson dies and goes to Allah...
"But what about Jesus?"
"Sorry, he was just a 6 denarii conjuror. The whole water into wine thing..... switching jars!"

"Jesus now avaliable for childrens' parties"

[mindseye]

Originally posted by DaShi


Maybe in December. I'm waiting for my penpal to have more free time to show me around and hangout.

Be sure to let me know if you blow into town! We can have a PRC 'Poly Meet. We can invite UR up to see what China ia really like.

[Mr. Harley]

Argument 1 (courtesy of Adam Corola). I listen to this show "Love Lines" on the radio if I go into work late on a weekday. They had a young man who called who manstrubated to male porn, but had a girl friend, and was confused. Adam made a point. For most men, imagine two guys getting it on. Yech.

Exactly. This is a visceral, heterosexual male reaction, at least for a lot of us. It doesn't mean I have to hate gays. But we are different. An erection is about as involuntary as they come. You could use pupil dilation, I can almost guarantee you the result would be the same. It is NOT voluntary, at least for the vast majority of gay males.

They may be genetic elements (actually, in some mammals homosexual behavior has a bunch of reinforcing traits as long as it stays below a certain threshhold, google it using "animal behavior"). Things may get miswired due to the fetal environment, either something just goes wrong (chaos theory) or one of a host of chemicals screws the poor kid up. It may be a nurture problem, as in a boy he was serially abused by a male and now his primary fixation is with other males. It may be only one element, or a combination of all three.

IT'S NOT VOLUNTARY. Okay. I like women. Always have, always will. I will never have sex with a man, at least not voluntarily. I couldn't become aroused if I tried around a male. Ditto in the opposite direction (gay male with a lady). Your behavior towards your urges can be controlled. Who you find arousing in innate.

Argument 2. My own. Occam's razor. Okay, let's see. I want to volunteer to cut the available partners to me from 50% of the human race to somewhere between 2 and 8%. Great move.

I will elect to be the last distinct group about whom disparaging jokes are still considered acceptable. Plus, in certain areas certain neaderthal types (forgive me Mr. Neaderthal, this isn't fair to you) still find it acceptable, nay, definite fun to go "bashing" my kind.

When they finish, there are still law enforcement types out there who will do nothing about it. While most of our uniformed gendarmes wouldn't tolerate gay bashing, go out into the rural south. While still a minority, there is an unfortunately large minority, even in law enforcement, who believe this behavior is acceptable.

I will voluntarily choose to be just about the last group it is perfectly legal to discriminate against, so much so that while not impossible, I have to hide who I am to serve my country, even if I am a patriot and am willing to die for it.

Then certain other people, including my own President, will call me a sinner, while others of that ilk will call me damned. They will quote their Holy Book against me. Yep, all in all, this sounds like a damn fine conscious choice to make.

You can argue some people make choices just to be ornery. They are a tiny majority of the gay community. Most in that community are just everyday people, like you and I, with one difference. Actually, there's a second one. They are statistically less likely to be pedophiles. If you want the most likely candidates, they are male relatives of little girls. Funny about that, isn't it.

[Evil Knevil]

Easy answer to Lancer: "Why the hell does it matter?" followed by "Who the hell are you to judge?"

In the nicest possible sense of course

[Datajack Franit]

LOL at Azazel, the complete and only masculine concentrate

[MikeH]

Exactly. This is a visceral, heterosexual male reaction, at least for a lot of us.

That's societal. We're 'trained' to think like that by our society. There's no natural instinct that makes us think it's bad.