Gays are born gay, I'm convinced of it.

[Theben]

nor drunkards... will inherit the kingdom of God.

So much for Ireland.

[Nubclear]

Lancer: Well thats good because I don't believe the bible is the word of god

[Solly]

I remember "liking" a girl in my first class at school, when I was either 4 or 5..

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Berzerker
No Mindseye, I'm not equating homosexuality with pedophilism or rape.

Man, that discussion was about two years ago, wasn't it? You still smarting over it?

Just kidding!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You rang?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:26-7

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "

Jude 1:7

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. "

See, this is where the question of translation is really, really important. Take the passage Ben quotes from 1 Corinthians. Pretty clear on the whole gay question, right? Except here's teh same passage from the King James Bible:

9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And here it is again from the Revised Standard translation:

9: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,
10: nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

The closest we get to homosexuality seems to be the King James' mention of being "effeminate" (so Liberace's not going to heaven, but Rock Hudson is?). Meanwhile, the Revised Standard instead inveighs against "perverts" (plenty of straight ones of those out there), and King James seems to condemn masturbation -- in which case, we're all in trouble.

Beyond that, note that none of this comes from Christ, but from disciples and, indeed, disciples who never knew him (certainly Paul didn't; I don't think Jude did, but it scarecly matters, since Jude doesn't mention homosexuality).

I respect Ben, but I'd take those citations with a biiiiiiig grain of salt.

[Bosh]

Bart: What am I supposed to do here?
Homer: Nothing. Just sit. I'll be back.
(walks away, revealing a giant "Laramie Slims" billboard, featuring a girl in lingerie having a pillow fight with another girl in a skimpy shirt and panties) (time passess...)
Homer: Well, it's been two hours. How do you feel?
Bart: I dunno. I kinda want a cigarette.
Homer: That's a good start. Let's get you a pack. What's your brand?
Bart: Anything slim!
Homer: (grunts) (to himself) Okay, that didn't work.

Bart: Dad why did you bring me to a gay still mill?
Homer: I don't know the whole world gone gay (to workers) you guys suck.
Random Worker: Oh be nice.

[Solly]

"but I'd take those citations with a biiiiiiig grain of salt"

[Dis]

you are correct.


The conservative position is bull****. People don't choose to be gay (though there may be a few exceptions- though I can't imagine why).

Some kids are different.

I knew kids when I was real young that wanted to do gay things with me. I had one friend who liked to take baths with me. It was only many many years later did I realize what that was all about.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Dissident
I had one friend who liked to take baths with me. It was only many many years later did I realize what that was all about.

er... how old was this 'friend' at the time?

So do you lot think being gay might be genetic? Like a recessive allele? I suppose that would have wiped its self out with evolution though, no?

Or maybe due to conditions in the womb? I think this is more likely - something to do with levels of hormones perhaps?

I disagree that it is a fixed thing though. Maybe there is a genetic predisposition to it, or a womb induced predisposition, but that doesn't mean it is fixed in stone.

The first time I tried beer I hated the stuff, but now I have grown to like it. I used to not be attracted to asian women, but not I think they are really sexy. I think likes and dislikes can change with time and environment, so why not sexual preference too?

I am also wondering to myself what a 4 year old can do to appear gay to an observer. Aren't you just applying a 'camp' stereotype here? You can't even draw any conclusions from later adult preferences/behaviour because if he behaves 'camp'' as a child people may treat him differently, influencing later preferences.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Tuberski


How do you know that, if the situation was reversed and homosexuality was the norm, you wouldn't force yourself to be straight.

ACK!

Because the species probably wouldn't be around long enough for Lancer to have that choice, dipwad.

ACK!

[Dis]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


er... how old was this 'friend' at the time?

So do you lot think being gay might be genetic? Like a recessive allele? I suppose that would have wiped its self out with evolution though, no?

Or maybe due to conditions in the womb? I think this is more likely - something to do with levels of hormones perhaps?

I disagree that it is a fixed thing though. Maybe there is a genetic predisposition to it, or a womb induced predisposition, but that doesn't mean it is fixed in stone.

The first time I tried beer I hated the stuff, but now I have grown to like it. I used to not be attracted to asian women, but not I think they are really sexy. I think likes and dislikes can change with time and environment, so why not sexual preference too?

I am also wondering to myself what a 4 year old can do to appear gay to an observer. Aren't you just applying a 'camp' stereotype here? You can't even draw any conclusions from later adult preferences/behaviour because if he behaves 'camp'' as a child people may treat him differently, influencing later preferences.

I knew someone would ask that . Same age as me.

[DaShi]

I have a friend who says she can tell the difference between gay Chinese guys and straight Chinese guys. Personally, I don't know how you can do it. Mindseye?

[Bosh]

Originally posted by DaShi
I have a friend who says she can tell the difference between gay Chinese guys and straight Chinese guys. Personally, I don't know how you can do it. Mindseye?

He doesn't. I remember him posting about getting shown pictures of the wives of people he was hitting on. Must make life difficult. In one of the adult textbooks I teach from there was a chapter on fashion and there was pages with people wearing different outfits. One of them was a gay guy so stereotypical it bordered on offensive, but I don't think I succeaded in explaining to my class why this was the case (nor can they fathom why all foreigners laugh at their hip hop groups' mind-bogglingly gay outfits). The closet is really really deep over here.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by DaShi
I have a friend who says she can tell the difference between gay Chinese guys and straight Chinese guys. Personally, I don't know how you can do it. Mindseye?

Sometimes I can (both genders), but much less often than in the US. I think the biggest problem (in identifying them) is that people are not corralled into gay/straight pidgeon-holes here, as they are pressured to do back home. That means that there are plenty of more-or-less straight guys who dig chicks and would never seek out gay sex, but are not completely averse to it if the situation arises (cue my entrance ).

Also, since relatively open "gay-ness" is still pretty new here, many self-identified gay guys have few of the external trappings that gay westerners do (behavior, attire, etc). And of course, many are acting straight to avoid social pressures.

With the waters so horribly muddied, I just hit on any guy I think is cute, and then follow it where it goes. This means a high "dud" rate as well as occasional encounters with "straight" guys. All in all I am not complaining.

Personally, I don't know how you can do it.

Here's a test for you: how about the female pop singer Han Hong (photo below)? A young lesbian-to-be in one of my classes said that she's ... well, you know.

Da Shi, are you planning on visiting "Hu-town" (Shanghai) any time soon?

[Q Classic]

all of asia is supremely repressed.