Rugby World Cup 2003 - Finals!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Drogue
What has gone wrong though? Why were we virtually invincible pre-tournament, but everythings gone wrong now? When the B team narrowly lost to France, not to long ago, we thought any meating during the WC would be a walkover, when it looks like we may not even be favourites to reach the final

IMO, and I have already said it earlier, the English team was ready too early before the World Cup.

I know I might be a bird of ill omen but I deeply regret England lack of shape as I still believe they are the best chance of the NH to win this World Cup. Should France win the Semi-Final (and I think they will) I fear they will be skinned (as usual should I say) during the final because of the traditional lack of consistency over a competition.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I know I might be a bird of ill omen but I deeply regret England lack of shape as I still believe they are the best chance of the NH to win this World Cup. Should France win the Semi-Final (and I think they will) I fear they will be skinned (as usual should I say) during the final because of the traditional lack of consistency over a competition.

But I think M'sieur Laport has brought a consistency to this team. As I observed a week or so ago, Les Grenouilles, when they've erred, have only really erred in concentration. There have been none of the mad brain fades of the past. Your hooker's yellow card last night was the first real piece of ill-discipline for the tournament and he really needs his backside kicked. I mean, he'd only been warned about 60 seconds before. I can understand your pessimism because you've suffered their inconsistencies in the past. This is the best mentally prepared French team I've ever seen.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


IMO, and I have already said it earlier, the English team was ready too early before the World Cup.

I think there's more to it than that, but I've already banged on about it, so I won't repeat myself.

[Havak]

Note too that the problem was the French were already waiting for reinforcement in the tight five at this time, so the ref shouldn't have let the Irish play at this time.

An injury replacement or a tactical one? The latter is entirely at the referee’s discretion whereas he can’t allow a scrum without the former taking place.

On performance, you are joint worst with us

Oh I beg to differ. As my French colleagues have pointed out unless Australia improve a thousand fold the ABs will arrive in the final without having been tested at all.

We are playing badly – but we know we can play better. Can a Wallaby side likely to be bereft of Smith and Giteau lift their game at all? I think you are playing about as well as you can right now – and that’s the difference for me.

Mmmmmm. That grenouille back row is a delight to watch in action.

It’s working in a way that ours is markedly failing to that’s for sure. Wilko must be really looking forward to having Betsen living in his lap. Looks like we will have to task Moody to take Betsen out early doors – preferably with a bulldozer.

and hopefully further irritating the crap out of you.

I’m certainly not a big fan of Bath – as may have been hinted at over the years. But I prefer to concentrate on our very pleasant unexpected victory over the defending champions.

If you think Eddie is having hissy fits try to dig out the post match interview Clive had with what I believe was a French reporter – it’s priceless.

I wonder, if Hill finally gets fit, if we might see a very different back row next weekend. Dally simply isn’t doing it, and Backy (very sadly) may be showing his age at last – I wonder if Moody-Hill-Worseley if worth a punt (not that Joe has impressed hugely).

But I tell you what would help us most –if the half backs channels were left largely to 9 and 10. I’ve complained about it before but we are still having everyone trying to play there – even the tight head was popping up in the stand off channel yesterday – it sort of stops us imposing any structure on our game!

And, most telling of all, I think, England's apparent inability to deal with this

That is very true to a certain extent. Perhaps worth saying that it’s a sign of a very good side that they can be wrong footed so thoroughly and still get the results??

I’m afraid LdiCesare was right about the ABs for me – they are being very efficient but really no one has asked them huge questions yet – Wales came closest perhaps?

Do you think J**** was carrying an injury? He never seemed to get out of first gear and had so little impact.

Are you kidding? He made a huge hit on the replacement scrummy late on that killed a Welsh move on the England line. He didn’t have a towering game – but then Wales were spinning fast wide ball and that doesn’t normally indicate you’ll see much of Jonno chasing them.

Luger was the one who had a really poor game – you may have seen the last of him. Which brings me to my main point – AUSTIN FLEW OUT YESTERDAY.

One for each Welsh try Havak?

Plus one for Lugers ground losing ‘clearance kick’ and a double tap for the stupid move with Kay on the wing (directly causing Stephen Jones opening try). And there’s also a new rut in my carpet!

If we are to believe a neutral and very recommendable witness who went in Australia to support the Lions a few years ago it seems that you are the only Australian supporter with the said ounce.

My own experience was very much that knowledgeable rugby fans like Finbar are a small minority at Wallaby test matches. It is possible the hype around that particular series pulled in the wrong crowd.

I would present this for the prosecution – the Wallabies are tucking away a very poor Scots side and late on the Scots try a desperate kick over the Aussies that Danielli chases. Sailor, against type it has to be said, collects the ball well and passes the ball back for a safe clearance as Danielli makes a desperation dive. Does the Aussie crowd applaud their player for a good piece of play do you think? No – they jeer and mock the Scots winger. It’s very distasteful (soccer like) and a sadly growing factor in watching rugby. The Aussies seem a few years ahead of some down the slide of crowds behaving in this way – I really dislike it. before Finbar points it out you would get exactly the same at Kingsholm yes – but that is an exception here still.

Oh and lets not forget guys that the semis have not been played yet. Until they are it’s still possible for Australia and England to make the final – however unlikely. After all we both have the best part of a week to learn how to play rugby again. No pressure there.
And the English have a secret weapon – if anyone can make French discipline break down then it’s us. Remember 1991 lads?

[Havak]

And here we go already from a man who should know better.

"You like or you don't like the English. Most of the people hate them," said Laporte.

"Personally I don't have much love but one has to accept that they often are the best in sport or in business so one has to respect them," he added half-jokingly.

"The best way to show respect for the English is to be just as proud and confident as they can sometimes be."

Laporte may respect England but he also believes that his team can beat them when they meet in Sydney on Sunday.

"England came to Australia as the world number one and I still think they are, but I hope that after Sunday's semi-final they will be downgraded to number two.

"We are here to win the World Cup and I think we can win it."

Now lets face it if Clive stands up and says he doesn't really like the French he would be put in stocks for it - so what shall we do to the French coach then eh? Make him eat Roast Beef and Yorkie Pud maybe?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
... so what shall we do to the French coach then eh? Make him eat Roast Beef and Yorkie Pud maybe?

Isn't it forbidden by the Geneva Treaty?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
And the English have a secret weapon – if anyone can make French discipline break down then it’s us. Remember 1991 lads?

If you refer to the game in which some of your players behaved like assassins and murdered Blanco I must admit that I support the French players that would have distributed some punches. This is a sad episode of the history of Rugby and of English Rugby in particular.

About the semi-final, I am not considering the game to be already won by the French team, I only think they can make it when I considered a few weeks ago they would sink against England.

[Havak]

Tamerlin - I think we'll waive the Geneva convention just this once for Laporte.

And no - whilst it was the game where Blanco got hurt (remind me of the circumstances?) I'm talking about the two players you had red carded for throwing blatant punches right in front of the referree. It's a black day in rugby history all right - but not for English rugby.

The French pack set out to punch the English pack off the field that day and it was ill conceived against that vintage of English forward. You were lucky to end the game with any forwards on the pitch.

I still think it's a decent tactic for us this weekend - get Pelous and Magne wound up and swinging like they used to in their youth and we might win against 13 men. Harinordoquoy should be easy enough to rile up as well.

I would imagine Finbar and the Kiwis will be fairly amused by you being angry at England for a game in which two French players were red carded for violent foul play?

Discipline - it's the French achilles heal...

It's all gloves off until after the weekend - at which point I'll back whichever of us triumphs over the other.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
We are playing badly – but we know we can play better. Can a Wallaby side likely to be bereft of Smith and Giteau lift their game at all? I think you are playing about as well as you can right now – and that’s the difference for me.

Of course the Wallabies can play better. They can play much much better. The problem is, they're not. Typically, they'll lift against the ABs as they always do. Whether it's enough is another matter. We've won unconvincingly. As England has. If Ireland and Scotland had given us half a dozen stupid penalties in the second half within kicking distance as Wales did for you, our scorelines would have been inflated too. The fundamental difference between us remains that we're not ranked #1 in the world.

Giteau's no chance, and Smith is now 70-30. The problem with Smith is that we desperately need another lineout option, so one of either Smith or Waugh will have to go. Unless there's an alternative that hasn't occurred to me. Oh that Owen Finegan were a couple of years younger. It's wonderful having two great scavengers, but it comes at a cost.

Wilko must be really looking forward to having Betsen living in his lap.

Fear not, Mike Catt will once more ride to the rescue and hold the boy's hand. BTW, does Mr Catt set his hair with Plaster of Paris?

Looks like we will have to task Moody to take Betsen out early doors – preferably with a bulldozer.

Methinks M'sieur Betsen might use young Moody for kindling to start the fire to brew his post-match macchiato.

I’m certainly not a big fan of Bath – as may have been hinted at over the years.

You're not? Sorry, I must have missed your subtlety.

But I prefer to concentrate on our very pleasant unexpected victory over the defending champions.

I like the way one of the websites, I think it was the Zurich one, said Leicester had avoided the relegation zone (or similar). I'm actually thinking of cashing in my superannuation and funding Rotheram to lease the French pack and #s 9 and 10 for the rest of your season.

If you think Eddie is having hissy fits try to dig out the post match interview Clive had with what I believe was a French reporter – it’s priceless.

Well, who would want the pressure they're under? Obviously Clive knows that if he bombs out this weekend, nothing the media has put Eddie through here will register against what the English media will do to him.

I wonder, if Hill finally gets fit, if we might see a very different back row next weekend. Dally simply isn’t doing it, and Backy (very sadly) may be showing his age at last – I wonder if Moody-Hill-Worseley if worth a punt (not that Joe has impressed hugely).

I'm sure Clive is praying for Hill's return. Neil Back just isn't being allowed to play his usual game. He, like a lot of them, has often been on the back foot. But I think he's showing his age, too. I noticed Dalaglio swatting away one of his teammates who was trying to ease him out of that trouble that arose after either a scrum or a ruck. There was a story here that Wilkinson had a tizz with teammates in a Brisbane restaurant last week. I have no idea how true it is. At least I have the name of the restaurant. I might ring them and find out.

Anyway, I've seen nothing from Worsley to indicate that he's the answer. I think you have to pray that the opposition stops jumping you from the kickoff. Or pray Clive or J**** has come up with some better means of reacting to the oppo taking the initiative. Near panic, which seems to be the current play, has its limitations.

But I tell you what would help us most –if the half backs channels were left largely to 9 and 10. I’ve complained about it before but we are still having everyone trying to play there – even the tight head was popping up in the stand off channel yesterday – it sort of stops us imposing any structure on our game!

That's right. What's more, the Welsh were smashing anyone around there or closer in.

One of the commentators said that Charvis doesn't have a domestic contract next (or this?) season. What's the story there?

That is very true to a certain extent. Perhaps worth saying that it’s a sign of a very good side that they can be wrong footed so thoroughly and still get the results??

Ditto the Wallabies, presumably.

I’m afraid LdiCesare was right about the ABs for me – they are being very efficient but really no one has asked them huge questions yet – Wales came closest perhaps?

Wales did. And they, eventually, handled them better than England did.

Are you kidding? He made a huge hit on the replacement scrummy late on that killed a Welsh move on the England line.

Yes, and? This is J****, inspiring heart and soul of the team. I remember him vividly when they were down a couple of players earlier in the year. I think he took it up two or three times last night, if that. I suspect there was something wrong.

He didn’t have a towering game – but then Wales were spinning fast wide ball and that doesn’t normally indicate you’ll see much of Jonno chasing them.

See above.

Luger was the one who had a really poor game – you may have seen the last of him.

I'm sure I've seen greater fear on a rugby field, but I can't remember when. (Yes, I can. Mr Catt -v- Mr Lomu ) Oh, and I won't be so unkind as to suggest that Luger's try-scoring chickens come home to roost.

Which brings me to my main point – AUSTIN FLEW OUT YESTERDAY.

Yes, I know. Thankfully he was yabbering as much as ever, the check-in counter misheard, and he's on his way to Austria.

and a double tap for the stupid move with Kay on the wing (directly causing Stephen Jones opening try).

Who was it who kicked? It was madness.

My own experience was very much that knowledgeable rugby fans like Finbar are a small minority at Wallaby test matches.

I'm in a very small minority in this country. It's called "one".

Oh and lets not forget guys that the semis have not been played yet. Until they are it’s still possible for Australia and England to make the final – however unlikely. After all we both have the best part of a week to learn how to play rugby again. No pressure there.

Not on us. The IRB has us ranked fourth, remember?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
And no - whilst it was the game where Blanco got hurt (remind me of the circumstances?) I'm talking about the two players you had red carded for throwing blatant punches right in front of the referree. It's a black day in rugby history all right - but not for English rugby.

The French pack set out to punch the English pack off the field that day and it was ill conceived against that vintage of English forward. You were lucky to end the game with any forwards on the pitch.

An English (Insert Any Game Or Sport) Supporter living in the past? Surely this is a first?

I would imagine Finbar and the Kiwis will be fairly amused by you being angry at England for a game in which two French players were red carded for violent foul play?

Idem. (To save Tamerlin the trouble)

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
when I considered a few weeks ago they would sink against England.

That puts you in good company with the Samoan and Welsh supporters, mon ami.

[Havak]

Given I have my back very much to the wall this week I'll need some time to compose a detailed riposte to some of that. The bits that were wrong anyway.

In the meantime, as you should be tucked up by the time I can post said riposte, I offer just this general reaction.



My huge thanks to Tamerlin for the inspiration on that one.

You'll all be crying in your beer when England lift the cup (or I'll be changing my name and emigrating if they don't)

Come on England!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Tamerlin - I think we'll waive the Geneva convention just this once for Laporte.

You are too kind.

And no - whilst it was the game where Blanco got hurt (remind me of the circumstances?)...

Is this an example of selective memory?

At the beginning of the game the English players kicked a serie of up-and-under aimed at Serge Blanco, Full Back, launching pad and engine of the French team in the 1991 RWC. This tactic allowed some English players to rush towards Blanco while the referee was far away from the action. The problem is that the goal of the English players was not at all to catch the ball but to harm Serge Blanco in order to get rid off him. This is obvious to anyone who can see the replays of the said actions (and I have seen them again just before the beginnning of this WC). This awful tactic succeeded beyond all hopes as Serge Blanco left the field and as the other French players lost their temper (two were red carded) and distributed some punches. Though I don't like those bad gestures I can't really blame them after what the English did to Blanco.

It is as if Betsen, Magne and Harinordoquy were given the order to catch Johnny Wilkinson in order to wound and incapacitate him. This is not acceptable whatever the team.

The French pack set out to punch the English pack off the field that day and it was ill conceived against that vintage of English forward. You were lucky to end the game with any forwards on the pitch.

Hospital mocking charity.

I still think it's a decent tactic for us this weekend - get Pelous and Magne wound up and swinging like they used to in their youth and we might win against 13 men. Harinordoquoy should be easy enough to rile up as well.

Don't count on it though and remember there are also some ways to irritate some English players not sure of their Rugby.

Discipline - it's the French achilles heal...

I agree with you... Grrrrrrrr!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Methinks M'sieur Betsen might use young Moody for kindling to start the fire to brew his post-match macchiato.

IMO, Serge Betsen will have the task to hunt for Wilkinson and no one will stand in its path.

One of the commentators said that Charvis doesn't have a domestic contract next (or this?) season. What's the story there?

The club merges in Wales left some players on the ground and Charvis was among them (he might be of the loudmouth kind not liked by coaches). He has been recruited during the RWC by the French Pro D2 club of Tarbes. He was until then under contract with three welsh restaurant owners.

I'm in a very small minority in this country. It's called "one".

Call the World Wildlife Fund.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
You'll all be crying in your beer when England lift the cup (or I'll be changing my name and emigrating if they don't)

You should fill and send the documents right now, I have heard that the process is rather long.

Come on England!

Who?