Rugby World Cup 2003 - Finals!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Is it any good? What's it called?

It's called "Believe Nothing". I haven't seen it yet. The reviews have been mixed, most saying it's just more of Rik Mayall's manic eye rolling and scenery chewing and bodily function humour. It's only a short series, I think the last ep is this week. I'll have a look.

[Havak]

The WRC, of course, being meaningless alongside Leicester's travails.

Well quite. Alongside a whole season of agony watching Tigers the World Cup is small beer indeed.

Since leagues started we have never had such a poor run. In fact the first XV having already lost three league games and one Cup game at home makes it already our worst season ever for home results I believe. And still everyone in the club is walking around doing their ‘problem, what problem?’ routine.

Well lets see what happens when David Clayton (Managing Director – came from a Soccer background a few years back) puts season tickets up by four times inflation yet again next season. I suspect more room for me to breath on the terrace next year.

I hereby offer you Graham Henry's services. Anything to keep him out of the ABs' chair!

Thanks – but let him have that chair and we will take Mitchell instead.

Yes, the first three words constitute outrageous tautology, I'd've thought.

I do have a talent for the tautological.

Except mine, of course. The older I get, the angrier I get!

Passion is proof of life. Too deep for me really.

I do know you are using Tamerlins trade marks freely.

He is very quiet as his boys are about to start the defence of their title isn’t he? I wonder if in his version of ‘Napoleon – The Undiscovered Truth’ he is using that old chestnut of Boney losing Waterloo because he had piles?

Dear old Bob, who handed over the Waratahs' coaching reins to Ewen McKenzie yesterday, retiring to head the Waratahs' version of an Academy. Great move.

As you have pointed out before his strength is spotting talent for others to mould. I would take him back at Tigers right now – he assembled a great team for us even if he couldn’t coach them for toffee – it’s clear looking back that Deano and Stransky took that raw material and made it gel.

It’s becoming clear that Tigers' problems are playing on my mind isn’t it?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Since leagues started we have never had such a poor run. In fact the first XV having already lost three league games and one Cup game at home makes it already our worst season ever for home results I believe. And still everyone in the club is walking around doing their ‘problem, what problem?’ routine.

Odds on for a new coach next season. Or even this one. I read somewhere that Saracans were sniffing around Mr 's incumbent. You never know, Leicester might sneak in ahead of them.

Thanks – but let him have that chair and we will take Mitchell instead.

Strange report of a press conference Mitchell held. Confessed that maybe he didn't communicate with the media all that well, or anyone else, but he has a passion for the game, and he felt betrayed by the NZRFU with some of their comments. And he seems to be thinking of reapplying for the job. Bagging his employers is, I'd've thought, a dodgy job application. So he might be available to you after all. Though I did read somewhere that Les Grenouilles were sniffing around him. Someone for Tony Marsh to chat to.

I do know you are using Tamerlins trade marks freely.

I took his crappy trademark claim to the European Court and won. And had costs awarded against him. 10,000,000 s. I'm enjoying spending the spoils. I'm down to 9,500,001 left. Make that 9,500,000.

He is very quiet as his boys are about to start the defence of their title isn’t he?

Wouldn't you be if you had 10,000,000 s awarded against you?

I wonder if in his version of ‘Napoleon – The Undiscovered Truth’ he is using that old chestnut of Boney losing Waterloo because he had piles?

No, in his version, Napoleon wins and Wellington develops piles as a result.

As you have pointed out before his strength is spotting talent for others to mould. I would take him back at Tigers right now – he assembled a great team for us even if he couldn’t coach them for toffee – it’s clear looking back that Deano and Stransky took that raw material and made it gel.

Yes, yes. When Deano has coached a WRC-winning team we'll discuss the comparison further.

It’s becoming clear that Tigers' problems are playing on my mind isn’t it?

I'm astonished to see you typing so fluently with that increasingly frenetic nervous tic.

[Havak]

Odds on for a new coach next season. Or even this one.

Our coach has already felt the need to publicly refute rumours linking him to Stade Francais – our opponents this weekend.

Saracens is a poison chalice – no club has spent so much and achieved so little since 1995.

Bagging his employers is, I'd've thought, a dodgy job application.

Yes, I noticed that. If we want him we’ll get him – so lets hope the club has some ambition left.

Wouldn't you be if you had 10,000,000 s awarded against you?

Probably.

So am I in contempt of court if I use a ?

No, in his version, Napoleon wins and Wellington develops piles as a result.

But on the plus side British cooking would be more favourably viewed I suspect.

Yes, yes. When Deano has coached a WRC-winning team we'll discuss the comparison further.

I thought you shared my view that Bob was a great talent spotter and poor man manager?

Regardless Dean’s club CV is far more impressive – and his playing career out of sight. There’s just a single line on Bob’s club coaching achievements. Pilkington Cup 1997. Aside form that he lost the league to Bath, Wasps and Newcastle in sequence – and got sacked due to that last one which was unforgivable.

I'm astonished to see you typing so fluently with that increasingly frenetic nervous tic.

Medicinal alcohol works wonders.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


It's called "Believe Nothing". I haven't seen it yet. The reviews have been mixed, most saying it's just more of Rik Mayall's manic eye rolling and scenery chewing and bodily function humour. It's only a short series, I think the last ep is this week. I'll have a look.

Did you ever see "The New Statesman"? A couple of those episodes were pretty good. Rik is capable of more than toilet humor it seems.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
So am I in contempt of court if I use a ?

No, no. My European Court action broke his monopoly stranglehold on s. s have now been liberated from his Gates-like grasp and are now, as they were always meant to be, freely available for use by anyone and everyone.

I thought you shared my view that Bob was a great talent spotter and poor man manager?

Yes, but, funnily enough, he can also coach.

Regardless Dean’s club CV is far more impressive – and his playing career out of sight. There’s just a single line on Bob’s club coaching achievements. Pilkington Cup 1997. Aside form that he lost the league to Bath, Wasps and Newcastle in sequence – and got sacked due to that last one which was unforgivable.

As I say, when Mr Richards has a WRC trophy on his CV, we'll discuss the matter further.

Medicinal alcohol works wonders.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Did you ever see "The New Statesman"? A couple of those episodes were pretty good. Rik is capable of more than toilet humor it seems.

Yes, I saw quite a bit of "New Statesman". He can do more than toilet humour, but his characters are all pretty much the same - oversized caricatures who mug a lot, as if saying, "look at me, I'm being excessive". I think the character wears thin very quickly because there's nothing else to it. Apart from his initial impact in "Young Ones", I think his best performance was in a cameo in the last series of "Blackadder", the series set in WW1. It was a very strong performance without the mugging.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


Yes, I saw quite a bit of "New Statesman". He can do more than toilet humour, but his characters are all pretty much the same - oversized caricatures who mug a lot, as if saying, "look at me, I'm being excessive". I think the character wears thin very quickly because there's nothing else to it. Apart from his initial impact in "Young Ones", I think his best performance was in a cameo in the last series of "Blackadder", the series set in WW1. It was a very strong performance without the mugging.

IIRC the character he played in Blackadder was a pilot with an oversized ego...it still had a "look at me" feel to it. Very funny though, I agree.

I just bought the DVD series of "Bottom", did you get to see much of that one? It's pretty good.

[finbar]

Yes, he played the pilot. As you say, very "look at me", and very funny, but it didn't have the excess of his other characters. Probably because he was guesting in someone else's series rather than in charge of the operation.

"Bottom" is pretty indicative of his problem, I think. And Ade Edmonson's. Basically their characters from "Young Ones" with a couple of tweaks, a change of costume and location. The trouble with non-stop excess is the overload factor, IMHO. You can have too much of the same kind of anything.

That, I think, was one of the great successes of "The Office". It wasn't unrelentingly in one vein. A superb mix of characters all travelling the same road. Their challenge, of course, will come with their next project. To see if they can create another world rather than just revisit the same place in different clothes.

[Havak]

Yes, but, funnily enough, he can also coach.

Actually I can give you several tales of his total inability to do exactly that job for an English side if you have plenty of time for a rant.

As I say, when Mr Richards has a WRC trophy on his CV, we'll discuss the matter further.

Remember – this is the NH I am posting from – club competition actually means something to us still.

What Bob achieved with the Wallabies was great – but how much of it was luck at having that squad (as with Woodward now?) and it was rather a one off. He has since proved time and again at club level (Tiger, Bristol, NSW) that his temper prevents him being an effective coach. Oh yes and his shameful defence of Puncher McCrae in the O’Gara incident does him no favours either. And finally remember the guy who never paid up on that drink for you – he is a dead ringer for Bob and constantly mistaken for him on tour.

I think his best performance was in a cameo in the last series of "Blackadder", the series set in WW1. It was a very strong performance without the mugging.

That character was actually a repeat performance – the assumed 'descendent' in fact of a character he played in Blackadder II (the Elizabethan one). The episode ‘Bob’ I think where he played Lord Flash-heart and stole Edmunds Bride (‘Bob’/Kate) from him at the alter.

I shall now put my anorak away. Blackadder remains both Elton’s and Curtis’s finest work for me. I don’t rate Curtis’s later sappy Hugh Grant comedies at all.

Another huge favourite of mine was Red Dwarf – the first six seasons (where the original writing team Grant-Naylor could still stand the sight of each other) contain some of my all time favourite ‘sitcom’ episodes (all time favourite Season 3 Episode 3 – Polymorph). The 7th season suffered from only Doug Naylor helming it and a huge inter season delay – plus an ill considered attempt to leave Rimmer behind by Chris Barrie (given by then he was stereotyping himself as Gordon Brittas anyway) who took very little part in that season. The 8th season after another huge delay was more back to form as Doug brought in a new writing partner who helped return us to more traditional ground.

Going since 1987 there have only been those 8 short seasons – and I believe the movie is due to film in Australia fairly soon.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Actually I can give you several tales of his total inability to do exactly that job for an English side if you have plenty of time for a rant.

The point being that he has a WRC trophy on his CV.

What Bob achieved with the Wallabies was great – but how much of it was luck at having that squad (as with Woodward now?) and it was rather a one off. He has since proved time and again at club level (Tiger, Bristol, NSW) that his temper prevents him being an effective coach. Oh yes and his shameful defence of Puncher McCrae in the O’Gara incident does him no favours either.

Um. Let's see. How can I reply to this? Mmmmm. Ah! :inspiration strikes smilie: I'll copy and paste. Hang on ...

The point being that he has a WRC trophy on his CV.

There we go.

And finally remember the guy who never paid up on that drink for you – he is a dead ringer for Bob and constantly mistaken for him on tour.

Piker!

That character was actually a repeat performance – the assumed 'descendent' in fact of a character he played in Blackadder II (the Elizabethan one). The episode ‘Bob’ I think where he played Lord Flash-heart and stole Edmunds Bride (‘Bob’/Kate) from him at the alter.

True? I'd forgotten. Well done. Good get, as they say.

I shall now put my anorak away.

No! You have previously unrealised depths!

Blackadder remains both Elton’s and Curtis’s finest work for me. I don’t rate Curtis’s later sappy Hugh Grant comedies at all.

It's actually Ben Elton's work. Have a look at the very first Blackadder series scripted by Curtis working solo. It's lame drivel. As soon as Elton joined the team, the series found its style. Which is pure Ben Elton. Curtis struck it very lucky with his films - Hugh Grant on the rise, a tone that was right for the times. Pure luck, as so many of the biggest hits - in any of the arts - are.

Another huge favourite of mine was Red Dwarf – the first six seasons (where the original writing team Grant-Naylor could still stand the sight of each other) contain some of my all time favourite ‘sitcom’ episodes (all time favourite Season 3 Episode 3 – Polymorph). The 7th season suffered from only Doug Naylor helming it and a huge inter season delay – plus an ill considered attempt to leave Rimmer behind by Chris Barrie (given by then he was stereotyping himself as Gordon Brittas anyway) who took very little part in that season. The 8th season after another huge delay was more back to form as Doug brought in a new writing partner who helped return us to more traditional ground.

I know a lot of people who are devoted to "Red Dwarf". For some reason, I'm not one of them. I've given it many tries ... and I have absolutely no idea why it doesn't appeal to me. Well, I think it could be that I'm allergic to SF in any way, shape or form, even of the "Red Dwarf" variety. I can't watch more than two seconds of "Star Trek" or any of those legendary vehicles.

Still, the most innovative television comedy continues to come out of England. "The Office", a lot of the "Kumars" episodes, and so on. More power to them all.

Going since 1987 there have only been those 8 short seasons – and I believe the movie is due to film in Australia fairly soon.

Mmmmm. Well, I suppose it will take up the studio space vacated by the Yanks who have ceased to use us as a backlot since our dollar rocketed up. Meaning the local crews, who were being paid US rates, miles higher than our domestic rates, will now have to resume earning what the rest of us have always been earning!

[Havak]

The point being that he has a WRC trophy on his CV.

He is not the only poor coach ever to win a big prize like that. You opinion of Clive Woodward would be pertinent here maybe?

Um. Let's see. How can I reply to this? Mmmmm. Ah! :inspiration strikes smilie: I'll copy and paste. Hang on ...

The point being that he has a WRC trophy on his CV.

There we go.

Very good.

Deano remains the man who won things with the team that Bob built (and couldn’t win a crossword puzzle with). There’s something in that whatever else Bob’s CV says.

No! You have previously unrealised depths!

But I find my veneer of shallowness quite useful.

It's lame drivel. As soon as Elton joined the team, the series found its style. Which is pure Ben Elton.

Yes you are right of course – although I think Atkinson himself was a co-writer on the original series and I seem to recall him coughing to that possibly being a problem in hindsight.

Curtis struck it very lucky with his films - Hugh Grant on the rise, a tone that was right for the times. Pure luck, as so many of the biggest hits - in any of the arts - are.

Very true. The man of course never needs to work again. Did you ever catch the Vicar of Dibley – Curtis had his hands in that too along with another Comic strip veteran in Dawn French.

Oh yes and the latest series of Ab Fab is airing here right now. It may well be a season too far for it although last Friday’s episode with Robert Lindsay and Elton John (classic line where he asks Joanna Lumley’s Patsy “Didn’t I know you when you were a man?") and a plot around the Beatles and Abbey Road was funny I will admit.

Ah well not everyone can like the Dwarf.

Have you noticed I wonder that none of those innovative comedy series are made by or for ITV? Auntie beeb serves a very valuable function here in that she can afford to take ‘risks’.

Meaning the local crews, who were being paid US rates, miles higher than our domestic rates, will now have to resume earning what the rest of us have always been earning!

Is this affecting Mrs Finbar? I’m not clear what area she works in.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by NeoStar
Excuse me, Tamerlin
That new mini series on Napoleon has got me back into that period with a vengence - I'm curious, how (as far as you know) do the French see him today? Is he treated in popular opinion and French history with reverence and respect for his laws/public works and greatness or like any dictator who led many soldiers to their death?

Sorry to answer so lately but I have had big problems with my computers that took me five days to solve (a big and nasty Worm or Trojan difficult to get rid off).

About Napoleon, the question is indeed tricky and it can't be answered easily. First, Napoléon came as the right man at the right place. You should remember that his rise to power came after long years of war with the other European countries who were trying to crush the young republic born from the revolution.

In France, Napoléon is revered as a mythical character, a conqueror, a strategical genious, a benevolent leader that gave France its modern institutions and its famous "Code Napoléon", the ancestor of our current Code Civil. In the same spirit, I suppose that the English school books are far more accurate and are nor incensing nor abusing Napoléon.

But why is he revered in France? Because for many generations the history books have taught the French pupils an embellished version of his deeds and victories carefully avoiding to talk about the price paid by the European people.

True, Napoléon was a dictator (more in the Roman sense of the word IMO)...
True, he put Europe aflame and depleted the French male population that started the decline of France...

But as Neostar suggested it Napoléon fought because he wanted peace and IMO because he had a vision of France... I sincerely think he wanted peace and started many of its military campaigns because he was forced to by the Coalisés and their plots. Remember that the major powers of the time was plotting the downfall of France since 1789.

But Napoléon is also a great man for many reasons. He was a great leader and strategist who rose from officer to emperor through the Consulat, he gave France (and other countries) new institutions and furthered science, saved the Republic as a young general, conquered most of Europe and built a powerful army. You have here all the ingredients necessary to create a hero if you can embellish a few things here and then.

Whatever the opinion you have about Napoléon, his achievements were great and the way he proceeded shows the man was clever... IMO, his only failure lies in the fact he was unable to secure the peace he fought for including in the last moments of the Empire when the Coalisés were still ready to sign an advantageous peace.

IMO, Napoléon's greatness is very difficult to evaluate if you forget the era in which his reign took place, and it was already a very cruel one with or without Napoleon.

To sum up all this, most of the people (those "unable to see beyond their nose" as we say in France) think that Napoléon was a great leader and general because they were taught this at school. Some others hate him and only see the bloodbath while some others are at the same time fascinated by the man, his destiny and his achievements, and are horrified by the consequences of his reign.



ON TOPPIC NOW: Don't expect me to catch up with the thread before tomorrow...

Sorry for the Tigers Havak, the Stade Toulousain won at home against the Racing Club de Narbonne 25 - 5, the return of the international players brought some freshness and we have seen some beautiful attacks though the overall game was rather dull under the rain and the direction of one of the worst referees of the French Championship, Mr Didier Méné himself. This umpire has a "gift", everytime he is in office the players fight each others (there is at least what we call "une générale" on the field after a scrum or ruck) and the last twenty minutes are a kind of stodgy gruel.

Frédéric Michalack played very well and Finbar's favorite blonde gave the Narbonnais some concern...

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
Yes, he played the pilot. As you say, very "look at me", and very funny, but it didn't have the excess of his other characters. Probably because he was guesting in someone else's series rather than in charge of the operation.

"Bottom" is pretty indicative of his problem, I think. And Ade Edmonson's. Basically their characters from "Young Ones" with a couple of tweaks, a change of costume and location. The trouble with non-stop excess is the overload factor, IMHO. You can have too much of the same kind of anything.

Yeah, definitely. There are a few episodes of 'Bottom' that I really like, but the rest are pretty average.

That, I think, was one of the great successes of "The Office". It wasn't unrelentingly in one vein. A superb mix of characters all travelling the same road. Their challenge, of course, will come with their next project. To see if they can create another world rather than just revisit the same place in different clothes.

Ah yes, "The Office" Definitely the best thing going at the moment in British TV. It's pretty popular over here in the states at the moment. I have the first series on DVD. The second series finished airing here about a month ago, but I still haven't seen the last episode. The last one I saw was when the boss, David, got let go. How are they going to work him back into the story?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Another huge favourite of mine was Red Dwarf – the first six seasons (where the original writing team Grant-Naylor could still stand the sight of each other) contain some of my all time favourite ‘sitcom’ episodes (all time favourite Season 3 Episode 3 – Polymorph). The 7th season suffered from only Doug Naylor helming it and a huge inter season delay – plus an ill considered attempt to leave Rimmer behind by Chris Barrie (given by then he was stereotyping himself as Gordon Brittas anyway)

Brittas Empire was a goodie. I haven't seen that one in ages though. When did they stop making them?