Ten Commandments unconstitutional!

[Sava]

The Ten Commandments ARE unconstitutional. "I am the lord thy God, thou shall have no Gods before me", kind of comes into conflict with the freedom of religion.

Good ruling. I don't want to see America turn into a Theocracy.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
First, as che pointed out, Deuteronomy is not the primary source of contemporary American law.

I would disagree with this. First of all, American law is not based on Roman law, as Che claims - it is based on English law, which is quite different (incidentally all(?) European law except English (even Scottish law!) is based on Roman law). The English law was of course heavily influenced by Roman law though. But England is a Christian country (or at least it was when America gained independence), so Deuteronomy is a primary source of English law. Even if you disagree with that, one can hardly disagree that it has had a significant impact on the US legal system - certainly enough to justify a monument.

In other words, it is not a Christian monument, but a cultural one (the ten commandments aren't even Christian). Feel free to erect monuments to whatever other writings have influenced your legal system.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


I would disagree with this. First of all, American law is not based on Roman law, as Che claims - it is based on English law, which is quite different (incidentally all(?) European law except English (even Scottish law!) is based on Roman law). The English law was of course heavily influenced by Roman law though. But England is a Christian country (or at least it was when America gained independence), so Deuteronomy is a primary source of English law. Even if you disagree with that, one can hardly disagree that it has had a significant impact on the US legal system - certainly enough to justify a monument.

In other words, it is not a Christian monument, but a cultural one (the ten commandments aren't even Christian). Feel free to erect monuments to whatever other writings have influenced your legal system.

I have to disagree. In fact, the US Coinstitution is, if anything, a repudiation of the Law of Moses. As MikeH and Stuie have already pointed out, the only Mosaic laws that correspond with US laws are those that pre-date Moses himself; the Law brought by Moses is exactly what the framers didn't want, and what they wrote out in the First Amendment.

Moreover -- and this is the important part -- the monument wasn't cutural. An image of Moses giving the laws to the Jews? That's cultural -- and acceptable. But the text of the commandments themselves, decontextualized and literally writ in stone? No way.

The Church-State division in the US is hardly the wall Jefferson envisioned; more like a fuzzy line. That's all the more reason to be vigilant about it. SCOTUS did the right thing.

[Japher]

When I lived in California we never had to say the Pledge.

I did, but only through elementary school, but even there we flubbed it say things like "I pledge allegiance to the *** of the United Dates of America, and to repubic for which it stands, one Nation Underdog, invisbly, and mustard for all" ah, we were stupid kids, now we're all stupid adults... Gotta love it

[Spiffor]

Yay!

[Alex]

Church and State have to be separate things.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Fez -

Where in that treaty have you found a provision forbidding the placement of religious monuments/icons on public property? That's quite an argument there given the fact some of the states had established religions at the time and for years aftwerward. That treaty said the US was not a Christian "nation", it didn't say the US was a communist nation...

The US is not a Christian nation. Period.

How does that piece of stone violate your rights? Since we don't share all beliefs, do I now have the right to instruct the state to remove you from public property when you express an opinion I don't share?

Keep the garbage away from my eyes and others who do not share your beliefs. You have basically no right to infringe your beliefs onto others by placing it on government property. The State is secular therefore any religious material is not fitting and not helpful in conducting state business.

[Az]

I would like to point out that some things from modern law DID originate from the biblical law. For example, the fact that everyone is equal before the law, even the king. That was groundbreaking.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Azazel
I would like to point out that some things from modern law DID originate from the biblical law. For example, the fact that everyone is equal before the law, even the king. That was groundbreaking.

They had laws like that in democratic Greece before the bible was written.

[Az]

Did they have them at ~1000BC?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Azazel
Did they have them at ~1000BC?

Didn't the Hammaburi (SP?) code even have a "code of honor" of some sort... and was published at even an earlier date.

Can somebody help me out here... lol...

[Az]

Of course! I was talking about the concept of equality of all men before the law.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Azazel
Of course! I was talking about the concept of equality of all men before the law.

But didn't that exist in democratic Greece before the bible was written? Can somebody who knows about the subject lend me a hand...

[Az]

If it did, it had them later, though almost certainly, developed them independently.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Azazel
If it did, it had them later, though almost certainly, developed them independently.

I would think it would have these things before the bible was written. Way before it was written.