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  • Hey Jewish guys of Poly...

    ...what´s your opinion about that?

    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


    Jewish slur MP faces probe


    Hohmann has apologised for his comments
    German prosecutors have opened an inquiry into alleged anti-Semitic remarks by a member of parliament.
    Christian Democrat Martin Hohmann compared the actions of Jews in the Russian revolution to those of the Nazis in the Holocaust.

    In a storm of angry reaction he was forced on Saturday to apologise for the remarks, made during a speech in October.

    But prosecutors on Monday announced their inquiry had been opened after a criminal complaint had been filed, alleging incitement, slander and disparaging the dead.

    Prosecutors in the central city of Fulda, near the town where the speech was delivered, said the identify of the person who filed the complaint was not being made public, although reports said it was an individual from Bonn.


    Jewish groups were furious at the Holocaust comparison
    The Central Council of Jews had earlier said it was planning to lodge a complaint.

    The full text of Mr Hohmann's speech will now be examined by the prosecutors, before they decide whether to mount a full-scale inquiry, says prosecutors' spokesman Harry Wilke.

    Mr Hohmann's comments drew angry reaction from Jewish leaders and widespread criticism.

    'Innocent lambs'

    He argued that while Germans still felt burdened by their Nazi past, others cast themselves as "innocent lambs" despite their own records - for example, the role of Jewish Bolsheviks in the 1917 Russian revolution.

    "With a certain justification, one could ask in view of the millions killed in the first phase of the revolution about the 'guilt' of the Jews," Mr Hohmann said.

    Blame should not be placed on the Germans for Nazi crimes or Jews for those of the Bolsheviks, but rather "the godless with their godless ideologies", he argued.

    On Sunday Mr Hohmann was thrown off a parliamentary commission looking at compensation for Nazi-era forced labourers.


    Leadership talks

    Christian Democrat leaders were due to discuss the case on Monday. Critics have called for him to be suspended from the parliamentary group.

    A German Government spokesman called the remarks "an unacceptable and intolerable gaffe".

    According to a transcript of his speech on the website of his local CDU branch in Neuhof, Mr Hohmann said: "Jews were active in great numbers in the leadership as well as in the Cheka [Soviet secret police] firing squads.

    "Thus one could describe Jews with some justification as a Taetervolk [a race of perpetrators].

    "That may sound horrible. But it would follow the same logic with which one describes the Germans as a race of perpetrators."

    However, he went on to say: "Neither the Germans nor the Jews are a race of perpetrators."

    The speech has since been taken off the site.
    As always, something like this is a huge thing in Germany. The reaction is negative even in his own party.

    I read the whole speech in German, he makes also a lot of other points (most of them nonsense IMO) I´m also not sure if his final turn (""Neither the Germans nor the Jews are a race of perpetrators.") isn´t just rhetorics to avoid criticism.
    Blah

  • #2
    Oh and non-Jews can reply too
    Blah

    Comment


    • #3
      It pisses me off that in some countries, free speech apparently doesn't extend to criticizing certain groups of people.
      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
      Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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      • #4
        Free speech is just a myth that you have in the US.
        Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
        Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
        We've got both kinds

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, I completely disagree with Hohmann´s POV. He should be criticized for the content of his speech, but there should be a kind of open discussion about it. We usually have the "one cannot say that" attitude here in Germany, which is imo not very helpful. If what he says is wrong, the political reaction should make clear WHY this is wrong. Simply canceling the discussion about it is no solution.
          Blah

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          • #6
            Ok, have to leave now, will check back later....
            Blah

            Comment


            • #7
              Look, i dont think germans are "a race of perpatrators" But Germans are the governing people (staatvolk?) of Germany, and even those who were anti-Nazi have some degree of responsibility for the Nazi state, just as I have some degree of responsibility for maltreatment of Native Americans, regardless of when my ancestors came to the US.

              Jews qua Jews had NO such role in the USSR. The USSR was not a Jewish state. Those Jews who played leading roles in the USSR also persecuted both Judaism as a religion, and also persecuted secular Jewish nationalism, in both its Zionist and Yiddish-Bundist forms. There is no analogy with whatever guilt (if any) the Germans should bare for the Nazis.

              Now if one wants to make a serious case against the notion of national guilt for Germany go ahead and make one (of course then one has to deal with the limited numbers of anti-Nazi resistors versus the large number of people who quiety went along) This seems to be a deliberate attempt to avoid and confuse the issue, by confusing NATIONAL guilt (associated with citizenship in and identification with a STATE) with collective guilt of a race or religion. To put it differently, a person of German DESCENT who lives in, say Canada, has no responsibility for reparations, etc. Just as someone of American descent living in say, Brazil, does not have any responsibility for apologies to native Americans. As a Jew whose ancestors left Russia before 1917, and whose politics was consistently anti-Communist, and I dont see how I have a responsibility for the actions of the USSR - I DO see how i have a responsibility for the massacre at Wounded Knee.

              That the notion of blaming Jews for communist crimes was a trope of the antisemitic right for many years only makes this look worse.


              It is not only wrong, it is VERY troubling. If it is not first priority now, it is because Jews are actually being murdered now, by people who seem to get the sympathy of much of the european left, who seem unable to condemn the murder of Jews by terrorists without adding a "but".
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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              • #8
                Originally posted by David Floyd
                It pisses me off that in some countries, free speech apparently doesn't extend to criticizing certain groups of people.
                Ciritisizing Jews (most of whom are and were anti-communists) for the actions of some individuals in the USSR is not anti-semitism? And we'er not in the context of Israel here, BTW.

                This is why when someone IN THE CONTEXT of Israel says that its unfair to call criticism of the Jews and Israel antisemitism, i have a tendency to be skeptical of that persons good will.
                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                • #9
                  The infamous conspiracy theory the commie zionist plot to rule the world pours out of the sewar once again. It's really getting old.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    re the freedom of speech issues

                    1. The FRG is historically more limiting of pro-Nazi and other racist speech than is the USA. While I stand up for the 1st amendment approach in the US, I dont think FRG's different approach has made the FRG an undemocratic or closed society. Maybe the FRG doesnt need such restrictions anymore? I dont know, though items like this dont help the libertarian side of that question
                    2. CDU taking it off their website. Well the CDU is a political party, and THEIR free speech rights include the right to remove things that dont speek for them. Its quite understandable that they would take such a speech off.
                    3. Its one thing to advocate in free speech - that doesnt mean one doesnt have the right to hold ELECTED OFFICIALS (and high appointed officials) accountable for hateful speech. Trent Lott as a PRIVATE CITIZEN has the right to say whatever he wants about Strom Thurmond, segregation, etc. But citizens have the right to question whether he should be Senate Majority leader. Gen Boykin has the right to say that Muslims are idol worshippers - but citizens have the right to question whether he is fit for a high post in the War on Terrorism.
                    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                    • #11
                      That the notion of blaming Jews for communist crimes was a trope of the antisemitic right for many years only makes this look worse.
                      No, Jews should only be blamed for crimes that Jews committed. That means that if a Jew, in the employ of the communists, committed a crime, then that Jew should be held responsible, as should a Christian, Muslim, Ukrainian, or anyone else.

                      Ciritisizing Jews (most of whom are and were anti-communists) for the actions of some individuals in the USSR is not anti-semitism?
                      Individuals, including Jews, should be criticized for their own actions. So, if a Jewish Russian working for the communists participated in mass murder, he should be held responsible.

                      Regarding your points about free speech, the problem lies in the fact that it is nearly impossible to criticize Jews in Germany - it's almost taboo, it seems. Of course the CDU has the right to pull speeches from its website - but there should be no laws against anti-Jewish speech any more than there should be laws against anti-Soviet speech, or anti-American speech.
                      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                      Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                      • #12
                        Note that I couldn't be bothered to read the article

                        I'm fed up of many in the Jewish community that seem to regard the holocaust as an excuse for people to get away with murder, sometimes literally. As a Jew myself I feel that this is something that history will not judge kindly.

                        I expect that ANYONE who commits an atrocity should be dealt with and regarded in the same way as any other, be they Jewish or otherwise. My religious cousin, when faced with the reports of the barbarism of Israeli troops in the occupied territories, says, "well "they" did it to us in the holocaust" .

                        I dont believe that we should get special dispensation simply because of all the crap we went through, nor do I think that this paranoid backlash against anti-semitism is productive. We need to let these people speak so we can crush their arguments in public, in the open, using logic and reason, not cloak and dagger tactics to preserve the sensibilities and play up to the guilt of others who seem to have difficulty in facing up to what has happened in the past. Let this be known: the generation that committed the holocaust is dying. How bout we stop walking on eggshells?
                        "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
                        "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

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                        • #13
                          Whaleboy
                          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                          Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            hi ,

                            the excuse aint big enough , ......

                            he should be reading his own country history before he opens his stupid mounth again , .....

                            and it aint the first time he has used things like that , .....

                            have a nice day
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                            • #15
                              See? That's the attitude I'm talking about - of COURSE a GERMAN can't criticize a JEW, that would be ridiculous!
                              Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                              Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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