Marxist's Apartment A Microcosm of why Marxism Doesn't Work

[johncmcleod]

Actually, people like that are usually insecure about their sexuality, so they try to get the attention and speculation off of it to someone else. So then they always call people 'gay' or 'womanish.' Ned is making himself sound very sexist and/or gay.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sandman


Classic Ned.

Thanks.

But the point stands. A characteristic of a free man is self confidence.

[Ned]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
Actually, people like that are usually insecure about their sexuality, so they try to get the attention and speculation off of it to someone else. So then they always call people 'gay' or 'womanish.' Ned is making himself sound very sexist and/or gay.

John, if you stop being obsessed with security and protection, you will begin to act like a man.

Join the marines.

[Berzerker]

John -

all I'll say is this. So far, the few communist nations have been lead by brutal, tyrant dictators who do a bad job of running the country.

That should be an amazingly clear message about communism.
What's the saying, power tends to corrupt...yada yada... Centralise power and corruption casts a broader net and becomes more difficult to expel (not to mention stupid policies). And John, it's not so much your ability to debate, you're just defending the indefensible.

[Ned]

And, John, did your Dad give you dolls to play with?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
John, if you stop being obsessed with security and protection, you will begin to act like a man.

Ned, do you still live with your parents? I'll tell you what. Any man with a family is extemely concerned with security and protection.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Point taken. Che has previously argued that unions are not required in communist countries because the people own the means of production.

I don't recall ever writing that. In fact, I arguye the opposite. The workers need a means of protection from their own government or you will get situations like the Soviet Union where the governemnt became a bureaucratic caste seperated from the working class.

Theoretically, in a true communist society, there would be no need for unions. That assumes that it is a true demcracy, production has achieved the point where no more than a few hours a day of work are necessary for the maintenance and expansion of society, that everyone has sufficient resources to maximize their human possibilities, the state has whithered away, etc. Until then, the workers need seperate organs for their own protection.

If there was breach of contract by the Govt., there is a court in Washington to handle the claim. The union was not without remedy. If they think overall working condidtions are unfair, they can petition Congress. There is absolutely no reason to strike when there are alternatives available.

Leaving it up to the courts takes a very long time and, as we have seen recently, the fact that a court decision goes against the government doesn't mean it will stop its activity. And Congress is never any help when it comes to labor disputes.

If your employer egregiously violates the contract, you have a right to withdraw your labor-power until such time as he agrees to abide by the contract. Just because one of the contract holders is the American people doesn't mean we get to treat those who work for us like ****. The right to strike is fundimental. I support anyone who strikes for fair treatment, whether it be police, gargbage workers, the military, or atcs.

So Che, have you recognized the errors of your support of the ATC union, or do you change you position on communism?

This is a capitalist state. Even if I thought what you ascribed to me, it would have no application in this situation.

[The Andy-Man]

Communism and Marxism sometimes seem like decent enough ideas, each to his own, 'know.

But then you meet and hear the opinions of people who say they are 'Communists' or 'Marxists.'

Then you realise that the movement is just some middle class scam inflicted on university students

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
Then you realise that the movement is just some middle class scam inflicted on university students

Despite the fact that most Marxists are working class. How many times have you gone into a factory and asked people their opinions, or do you just take the college students you know to be representitive of the whole movement? Yeah, as if Marxists with jobs have time to go to every demonstration.

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Despite the fact that most Marxists are working class. How many times have you gone into a factory and asked people their opinions, or do you just take the college students you know to be representitive of the whole movement? Yeah, as if Marxists with jobs have time to go to every demonstration.

in my expirience, the working class tend to be the most ardent conservatives

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
in my expirience, the working class tend to be the most ardent conservatives

Which does not negate the fact that most Marxists are working class. Marxists are a much smaller group, and could easily be all working class without greatly affecting the majority of working class politics and culture. The majority of working class people are non-union. Doesn't mean unions aren't working class.

[The Andy-Man]

good point, though i must say that most marxist (especially the theoriticians) are almost always some comfortable, and bored, middle class fellow

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
good point, though i must say that most marxist (especially the theoriticians) are almost always some comfortable, and bored, middle class fellow

Got any proof of that, BAM?

I would suggest that I'm in a far better position to know than you.

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

I would suggest that I'm in a far better position to know than you.

well done you

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Ned
Thanks.

But the point stands. A characteristic of a free man is self confidence.

No it isn't. One can be free and unconfident. One can be unfree and confident.