What´s the real difference between...

[Bereta_Eder]

It would be funny to have a flame war about postmodernity. Sad actually

Yes, this is one theory especially if you take as point of referance the '60s. However if your starting point to judge modernism is the years during (and after) the englightment you'd see that the world has gone postmodern a long time ago. From the moment that it has accepted that not everything can be magically be solved through human science or that the englightment did not in fact lead to eternal peace and happiness as it was prophezied. Those unpredicted parameters and the sinking of (the excuberant) hopes of modernism, which are a reality, which they have been destroyed, constitute postmodernism IMO. Does that mean the death of modernism though, hardly. But it has influenced it heavily, taken it out of its "naive - childish" period you could say.

[Bereta_Eder]

Forgot to mention that there are indeed clear signs of postmodernism in today's societies IMO. The return en mass, which started happenign at a more or less specific period of time historically speaking, to all sorts of "higher powers" being that mediums, sheers, fortunetellers or astrology or((((god ))))

[BeBMan]

I took the 60ies because Buck mentioned them, and because he is right in the way that after this time the purely positive meaning of "modern" faded away, here I agree with him, and with you. However, this can be solved elegantly by some theories which incoporate those failures/problems into new views on modernity. I think in the end it is not that important how we call it

[Bereta_Eder]

From the moment that we agree, nope it's not important how to call them, we just call them somehow to understand eachother.

However there is the other side which claims that modernism hasn't been simply taken out of childhood but that it has been effectively destroyed (beyond repair). A pessimistic view, agreed. That human sciences aren't enough to accomplish peace, happiness and solve all our problems but we are in an everlasting circle of ups and lows, like we've been since the down of age, albeit now with colour TVs. Something with which I can't agree.

However (2) maybe there's a grain of truth in it? That human science by itslef doesn't guarantee anything (the mosty bloodied wars happened after the Enlightment). That we need something else.

But (IMO) this should come from the human too, hence we return to modernism. The alternative is to give up and make nihilistic movies

[:) Smiley]

In any case postmodernism has been around for too long.

However, it is on the way out, at least in architecture. Postmodern architecture has lost its popularity among big projects, being replaced by a new kind of modernism, with buildings that look like crystals or blobs.

[Sava]

stupid nonsensical classifications...

[Az]

maybe some of you fail to understand this, but post-modernists believe that modernism is wrong in many of his core ambition. You don't cease to be a modernist if you believe that some bad things were done during the modern era, or that not everything was right. You DO cease to be one, if you believe that the general direction in which we're going in terms of general scientific progress, and it's incorporation into society is wrong.

[Sava]

I really don't care... all that crap is for artsy fartsy snobs...

[:) Smiley]

I think it would be interesting if someone made a Civ game with a postmodernist bent to it.

[Sandman]

I remember someone suggesting (jokingly) that there should be a deconstructionist unit, which reduces cultural output from the target city.

[:) Smiley]

so the question then is, is Civ modernist propaganda, or is postmodernism a load of feces?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Azazel
maybe some of you fail to understand this, but post-modernists believe that modernism is wrong in many of his core ambition. You don't cease to be a modernist if you believe that some bad things were done during the modern era, or that not everything was right. You DO cease to be one, if you believe that the general direction in which we're going in terms of general scientific progress, and it's incorporation into society is wrong.

Those postmodernists can believe this all day, but there is next to nothing that can be done against it. We can´t turn back the time.