What´s the real difference between...

[Az]

Modernism.

Post-Modernism.

[mrmitchell]

postmodernism

[Sandman]

Postmodernism is not very useful.

[Buck Birdseed]

If you're a post-modernist you don't believe anything is.

Anyway, I find Discourse Theory (for instance) very helpful.

[Bereta_Eder]

I don't think one can say "postmodernism isnt useful". Its simply here. It is the product of society and specific historical events (and intelectual "elites" granted) and reflects a reality with which you can or not agree but its here. In that view you can say postmodernism is useful as a means of reflecting on reality and then you can (ironically) reject postmodernism and try to change reality but by know you grasp said reality more fully because of postmodernism.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Anyway, I find Discourse Theory (for instance) very helpful.

Yeah of cource it is, if you want to deny the holoucast for example.

[BeBMan]

It is however not a point which cannot be debated. There are a number of critics of postmodernism, some even (as I said above) say a postmodern society doesn´t really exist, we are still in a "modern" society, but our views on what is "modern" change as modern society "re-invents" itself in an ongoing process.

Edit: I mean post-modernism, not the holocaust, evil x-posts....

[Az]

I find post-modernism pessimistic, and non-constructive.

[Bereta_Eder]

Bebro, yes but I think this is just playing with semantics. One can think of it as an evolution inside of modernism which is incorporated into it (but IMO one cant because postmodernism rejects fundamentals of modernism) or he can say that there's a line where societies stepped into postmodernism but kept going(?), to something else. in anycase "postmodernism" is there. But isn't necessairily the terminal, final point, (certaintly not in my opinion)

[Sandman]

If you're a post-modernist you don't believe anything is.

Anyway, I find Discourse Theory (for instance) very helpful.

That's a contradiction though.

I don't think one can say "postmodernism isnt useful". Its simply here. It is the product of society and specific historical events (and intelectual "elites" granted) and reflects a reality with which you can or not agree but its here. In that view you can say postmodernism is useful as a means of reflecting on reality and then you can (ironically) reject postmodernism and try to change reality but by know you grasp said reality more fully because of postmodernism.

Careful, I said it was not very useful. It's not totally useless, since it provides entertainment and employment for intellectuals. I don't see how an belief that reality is ungraspable can be helpful in grasping reality, either.

[Az]

Careful, I said it was not very useful. It's not totally useless, since it provides entertainment and employment for intellectuals. I don't see how an belief that reality is ungraspable can be helpful in grasping reality, either.

that goes to my sig line.

[Bereta_Eder]

I think postmodernism serves as a warning bell. And obviously it is here as reality has shown. It is a product of specific failures or too high dreams that reality vomited. That doesn't mean raising our hands up and say ok that's it. But you cant go on as everything is just peachy because postmodernism, simply, exists. Learnign from it instead of burrying your head in the ground is preferable IMO. You dont have to agree with everything it says either.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Bebro, yes but I think this is just playing with semantics.

Which is of course the same some think about the term postmodern

[Bereta_Eder]

But no if one accepts that it can't be incorporated semantically to modernism since the latter term contradicts postmodernism main fundamentals.

(argh i was this close to writing pornmodernism, i must get some fresh air)

[BeBMan]

The point is that these scholars doubt that there are truly postmodern characteristics - they argue that what we see as problems or failures does in fact indicate modernity (and its risks). Problems of modernity do not neccessarily justify the creation of a new era (what "postmodern" suggests), because our societies are not that fundamentally different from those pre 60ies societies, even when we look on all problems related to modernity.

Of course, nothing to start a flame war about it