Rough Day In Israel. Anyone Heard From Anyone ?

[MrFun]

I bet Israel's last rough day before this one was . . .









the day before that one.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Gepap: To be fair Khaled Zahar, Mahmoud Zahar's 20 year old son, was a member of Hamas and an Islamic terrorist. It's right this bastard should be killed.

Oerdin, thats crap logic and you know it.

[Dinner]

All I said was to be fair two fo the people killed were members of a terrorist organization. That means 50% of the people killed were terrorists and not the 25% which has been claimed in this thread.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
At least one in 1873 at Pine Ridge.

And 1873 is after 1890?

BTW show how they are being confined to reservations or ghettos. Their territories will have access to Jordan and Egypt plus they've been offered a land corridor connecting the west bank and gaza. The only thing the wall will do is protect innocent people from the blood thirsty murders who live on the other side.

[lord of the mark]

heres an interesting commentary in the Jerusalem Post

'So what does this mean? There is no shortcut. Arafat has to go through a period of incremental weakening. The problem for Israel is that we are looking at the situation from a day-to-day perspective. Nobody has the patience to wait for Arafat to get weak enough to give way or allow another leadership. It is an inevitable process, but there is no revolutionary jump where Arafat will become a nobody and a Palestinian government will take over.

Arafat will be weakened over a long time. He is not only getting older and less capable, he is losing power by the very fact that Israel and the United States and the European Union are keeping pressure on him to give away more leadership to others who are capable of cooperating with Israel.

Much of this debate is affected by our over-estimation of the alternative leadership. It is as if once Arafat disappears, the other government will become "lovers of Zion." We forget that we are still dealing with people for whom political survival is highly dependent on legitimacy from their own people won by showing they can't be more flexible than Arafat.

They have no illusions that Israel would give them what they want without exerting pressure, which almost necessarily leads to the use of violence. They see the tensions inside Israeli society with most people wanting separation. But the process of settlement-building and expansion and other projects since 1993 is not something that would encourage them to be firmer against violent organizations unless there will be a new balance.

Even if we want to believe that an alternative to Arafat would be much better for Israel, we have to take into consideration it will never happen unless this leadership obtains substantial rewards from Israel or be able to show their people that it would be worth taking another path.

Any new leadership needs legitimacy and it would need to be supported by the more organized groups, first and foremost, by Fatah. They can't come to Hamas and give them an ultimatum to disarm unless they can show that this armed potential is less necessary [than before].

We have to make clear to the Palestinians that we will not allow terror or violence, but at the same time we have to give them the light at the end of the tunnel and show them there is a reward, otherwise there is nothing but despair and violence.

Dr. Avraham Sela is chairman of the department of international relations at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and author of Palestinian Hamas: Vision, Violence and Coexistence. '

[Agathon]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


In the last 30 years:

Leaders of Israel:

Golda Meir - incompetent: nearly had Israel beaten.
Yitzhak Rabin
Menachem Begin - war criminal
Yitzhak Shamir - wasn't he a thief?
Shimon Peres - lame duck
Yitzhak Shamir (again) - thief
Yitzhak Rabin(again)
Bibi Netanyahu - incompetent: ruined the peace protest
Ehud Barak - a good man in a bad situation
Ariel Sharon - war criminal

Leaders of the Palestinians:

Yasser Arafat. - terrorist, freedom fighter: corrupt

Time to try something new?

Yeah, the Palestinians only made one mistake. Israel has managed to produce only one good leader in the last 30 years.

[Arrian]

Fair and balanced assessment of Israeli leaders you made there, Agathon.



-Arrian

[Dinner]

Agathon: With such a one sided view are you sure your not planning on working for Fox News?

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Oerdin

The only thing the wall will do is protect innocent people from the blood thirsty murders who live on the other side.

So now the wall is meant to protect the Palestinians?

[Arrian]

Beat you to it, Oerdin.

[MRT144]

arrian, watch out for litigation from fox. oh, wait, you support their viepoint, nevermind.

[Arrian]

Excuse me? I support Fox? Where the **** did you get that idea?

I loathe Fox, MRT. That doesn't mean I can't use their silly slogan in a joke.

-Arrian

[MRT144]

its their trademark slogan. expect to be served.

[Arrian]

Yeah, but I'm not trying to sell a book by using it. There is a difference.

-Arrian

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Agathon: With such a one sided view are you sure your not planning on working for Fox News?

What's one sided about it?

Most of the Israeli leaders have been less than inspiring with Begin and Sharon the worst of the bunch and Arafat is a corrupt lunatic.

My position of "a plague on both your houses" is becoming more popular anyway.